Author Topic: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA  (Read 56135 times)

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Offline gilet

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #90 on: April 04, 2013, 12:37:05 AM »
One thing that is often unknown about the dog alerts is that there was a real desperation to get the work completed in a specific time scale. The dogs were still working at 4am on at least one morning, having worked most of the previous day.

registrar

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #91 on: April 04, 2013, 12:43:03 AM »
One thing that is often unknown about the dog alerts is that there was a real desperation to get the work completed in a specific time scale. The dogs were still working at 4am on at least one morning, having worked most of the previous day.

true

remind me please - the dogs were deployed in Luz in August/September - were they not?

Massive climate change from Yorkshire - that and the different smells of flora/fauna around them

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #92 on: April 04, 2013, 12:46:34 AM »
Even from the very truncated and badly edited video we have seen its clear the dog handler spent far more time calling the dog back to the McCanns car than to the other cars. If they had spent as much time on the other cars who knows what they may have found?

The full 20 minute video in the car park is worth watching - Mr Grime certainly calls Eddie backto the McCann's car six times more often than any other car.

THe alerts may have been serial errors- incorrect se base recgnised and alerted followd by reinforcement by the handler- watch the videos. Dogs smell the same scent around other McCann possessions and alert again.


I agree, dogs aren't stupid and if they are  recalled several times they can learn that a reaction is required and bobs your uncle.

I have great difficulty with the suggestion that the dogs can be  'guided'  by their handlers to alert falsely  in order to please  (  or get a treat )

Take Mr Grimes, as the case in point  ...  it matters not a jot to him if his dogs alert or not,  indeed,  them  not  alerting can be seen as a successful outcome providing the  'non alert'  was accurate

It is  the accuracy  of the dogs that matters to the handler,   whether they alert or not   ...  their, and his, reputation and livelihood depend on it

It is very unfair and utterly insupportable to suggest that Mr Grimes,  for some inexplicable reason,  'caused'  his dogs to falsely alert in the McCann case

Offline John

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #93 on: April 04, 2013, 12:51:31 AM »
One thing that is often unknown about the dog alerts is that there was a real desperation to get the work completed in a specific time scale. The dogs were still working at 4am on at least one morning, having worked most of the previous day.


Good point gilet and that combined with the strange environment with all its foreign scents could only but confuse the poor little muts.  Not to mention the extreme heat and the humidity at night.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

registrar

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #94 on: April 04, 2013, 12:52:21 AM »
Even from the very truncated and badly edited video we have seen its clear the dog handler spent far more time calling the dog back to the McCanns car than to the other cars. If they had spent as much time on the other cars who knows what they may have found?

The full 20 minute video in the car park is worth watching - Mr Grime certainly calls Eddie backto the McCann's car six times more often than any other car.

THe alerts may have been serial errors- incorrect se base recgnised and alerted followd by reinforcement by the handler- watch the videos. Dogs smell the same scent around other McCann possessions and alert again.


I agree, dogs aren't stupid and if they are  recalled several times they can learn that a reaction is required and bobs your uncle.

I have great difficulty with the suggestion that the dogs can be  'guided'  by their handlers to alert falsely  in order to please  (  or get a treat )

Take Mr Grimes, as the case in point  ...  it matters not a jot to him if his dogs alert or not,  indeed,  them  not  alerting can be seen as a successful outcome providing the  'non alert'  was accurate

It is  the accuracy  of the dogs that matters to the handler,   whether they alert or not   ...  their, and his, reputation and livelihood depend on it

It is very unfair and utterly insupportable to suggest that Mr Grimes,  for some inexplicable reason,  'caused'  his dogs to falsely alert in the McCann case

When will you comprehend that you are clutching at straws?

Offline Eleanor

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #95 on: April 04, 2013, 12:52:35 AM »
Mr. Grime used the video made in Portugal, as an advertising tool.  He used it to convince Lenny Harper in Jersey that he should employ the dogs.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #96 on: April 04, 2013, 12:56:32 AM »
Mr. Grime used the video made in Portugal, as an advertising tool.  He used it to convince Lenny Harper in Jersey that he should employ the dogs.

Are you suggesting Mr Grime is a chancer who steered  his dogs into making false alerts in the McCann case so he could raise his profile  ?

That is a serious accusation  ...  what do you base it on  ?


Offline Eleanor

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #97 on: April 04, 2013, 01:01:13 AM »
Mr. Grime used the video made in Portugal, as an advertising tool.  He used it to convince Lenny Harper in Jersey that he should employ the dogs.

Are you suggesting Mr Grime is a chancer who steered  his dogs into making false alerts in the McCann case so he could raise his profile  ?

That is a serious accusation  ...  what do you base it on  ?

Did I say that?  I don't think so.

registrar

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #98 on: April 04, 2013, 01:07:00 AM »
Mr. Grime used the video made in Portugal, as an advertising tool.  He used it to convince Lenny Harper in Jersey that he should employ the dogs.

Are you suggesting Mr Grime is a chancer who steered  his dogs into making false alerts in the McCann case so he could raise his profile  ?

That is a serious accusation  ...  what do you base it on  ?

I would base it on logic
getting paid shedloads for a grainy video made in Luz/Portugal - which resulted in no scientific findings
to be paid shedloads to go to Jersey to find a piece of coconut shell - as confirmed by Kew Gardens

Genius
give that man a cigar


Bungled Jersey child abuse probe branded a '£20million shambles'



« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 01:51:41 AM by John »

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #99 on: April 04, 2013, 01:15:16 AM »
Mr. Grime used the video made in Portugal, as an advertising tool.  He used it to convince Lenny Harper in Jersey that he should employ the dogs.

Are you suggesting Mr Grime is a chancer who steered  his dogs into making false alerts in the McCann case so he could raise his profile  ?

That is a serious accusation  ...  what do you base it on  ?

I would base it on logic
getting paid shedloads for a grainy video made in Luz/Portugal - which resulted in no scientific findings
to be paid shedloads to go to Jersey to find a piece of coconut shell - as confirmed by Kew Gardens

Genius
give that man a cigar

I don't think that is a rational conclusion to come to

 ...  straw clutching at it's most desperate,  if I may say

registrar

  • Guest
Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #100 on: April 04, 2013, 01:18:45 AM »
Mr. Grime used the video made in Portugal, as an advertising tool.  He used it to convince Lenny Harper in Jersey that he should employ the dogs.

Are you suggesting Mr Grime is a chancer who steered  his dogs into making false alerts in the McCann case so he could raise his profile  ?

That is a serious accusation  ...  what do you base it on  ?

I would base it on logic
getting paid shedloads for a grainy video made in Luz/Portugal - which resulted in no scientific findings
to be paid shedloads to go to Jersey to find a piece of coconut shell - as confirmed by Kew Gardens

Genius
give that man a cigar

I don't think that is a rational conclusion to come to

 ...  straw clutching at it's most desperate,  if I may say

Nope not desperate - just factual

what have Grime's dogs discovered in Luz and Jersey that's admissable as evidence in a Portuguese or Jersey court of law

What?

answer that please 

Offline John

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #101 on: April 04, 2013, 01:20:45 AM »
I just had a look at the Martin Grimes website and am somewhat bemused at the claim that the dogs scented death in the farmhouse AFTER Adrian Prout confessed to strangling his wife there.

Question is...why didn't the cadaver dogs scent it 3 years earlier when it was fresh?

Lets face it the dogs were pretty useless in that case, the body would never have been found if Adrian hadn't shown police where he buried it.

http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/cadaver-dog-sniffed-death-in-prout-home.html
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 01:40:29 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #102 on: April 04, 2013, 01:31:47 AM »
Video - Spaniels Eddie and Keela in Apartment 5a, Clothing and Hire Car tests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Jw4Uhoik6qI#!


Just looking at that video, one has to wonder how many other professionals were in that apartment with their bag of tricks, chemicals and fingerprint dust before the dogs arrived?  No wonder the dog results were effectively useless.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 01:37:54 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Eleanor

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #103 on: April 04, 2013, 01:33:40 AM »
Apparently they did scent something in the farm house.  Just one problem.  Mrs. Prout wasn't killed in the farmhouse. She was killed and buried some distance from the house.  In an area that was searched by the dogs, who found nothing.

Offline Eleanor

Re: The truth about the Cadaver Dogs and DNA
« Reply #104 on: April 04, 2013, 01:44:14 AM »
There has only ever been one Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog and that was Eddie.  This title was bestowed on Eddie by Martin Grime himself after Eddie supposedly did a course in detecting Cadaver Scent.
I have never been able to understand this Enhancement as Eddie was originally trained to scent  Dried Blood which he certainly didn't unlearn in the process.