T9 And Security Of Holiday Apartments

[sadie]

So Apt 5a was more vulnerable then?

No it wasn't VS.  (IMO from experience)



We set up the first neighbourhood watch in our area with a meeting that amazingly every householder attended. 40+ houses

I asked the question, "has anyone here been burgled? ... and everyone had been with a couple who had been done twice. 

Suddenly a voice popped up "I have been burgled five times.  He lived at the corner house

We have further experience of this with corner house friends who had been burgled whilst no other houses in that road had

[sadie]

Yes as it can be accessed directly from the public streets.

Sorry Rob, I have to disagree.

At the front, north side, of the building an intruder had to cross a fairly large parking area.  All the flats had to cross this.   Then an abductor had to either climb a wall, or walk a semi open passage way where he was on view.  Flat 5A had the longest walk, so longer exposure  to any one watching

To the south side (the back) the rear way into 5A was visible to anyone walking up Rua Dr FGM and from a number of apartments and villas.  The patio area was illuminated by the street lamp opposite.  The other flats involved a walk along a really dark totally unlit alleyway, which few used at night ... after walking this alleyway, a prospective abductor would have had to cross a small garden and climb steps up.  Also there was the added advantage to intruders that there was no street lamp opposite illuminating them as they walked, climbed and entered.


It would have been much easier, security wise to enter any of the flats than to enter 5A.



UNLESS, there was a watcher signalling the all clear on the balcony opposite 5A ... where the fag ends were found.  With a watcher opopsite, 5A was the easiest to enter security wise


I really think those fag ends were like very significant

AIMO, but based on facts and logic.

[sadie]

5a is adjacent to two roads, the others one.
But 5a's patio door is very secluded and can't be seen from the Tapas Bar.
It's a risk assessment.
With the supposed frequency of footfall I'd abandon it and think about nicking one from the night creche. Piece of piss.

5a's sitting room patio door is not secluded, especially when the bushes have just been cut back as had happened during their stay.  It can be seen from the restaurant and from the street and from various flats, balconies and villas.  Please note Mr General, sir

They didn't eat in the Bar, they ate in the restaurant.  Please note Mr General, sir.

We ate in that restaurant and I can assure you that from there we could well see 5A main sitting room patio door.  I am not sure about the patio door to the parents bedroom, because I wasn't particularly looking at that ... and I see from various images published that there is a shrub in front of part of that secondary patio door.


Did Amaral bother to fingerprint the patio door to the parents bedroom?

[sadie]

JT saying this, that or the other does not make it factually correct.  There's no way JT could have passed GM/JW chatting on FGM 5A side without them noticing her which they didn't.  JT/JW version of events in this regard contradict GM's about which side of the road they were on.  If JT slipped up the back passage this would account for how she was able to observe GM/JW chatting but went unnoticed herself.  It would also align with JW's version of events about which side of the road he was on.  JW was staying in block 4 and pushing his young son around in an attempt to get him off to sleep.  Prior to chatting with GM he went to the loo at tapas, why would he then cross the road with a buggy/pram when he was simply walking round the perimeter of OC? 

No one mentions anything about the back passage being dimly lit or a scary place.  Conversely RO said she did not like the car park side at night as it was dark and FP said similar including a whistling sound from winds. 

And we can be 99.9% certain the man seen leaving the vicinity carrying a child was Dr T carrying his own daughter not MM's abductor.

Please desist from personal comments eg claiming I have a fertile imagination which plays tricks and that G-Unit spreads disinformation.  If the contents of your posts stood up to scrutiny you would not need to add all of this but they don't hence you feel the need to make it personal.

All this has been gone over time and again, and you are wrong.  Read back.


That alletyway is dark, IMO no woman would want to walk an alleyway such as that with no lighting.  Please do not keep saying things that are incorrect.  Please remember that I have been there.  Ask SIL if you dont believe me.


You do have a fertile imagination, changing accepted (by police as well) happenings to suit that imagination.  If it is not imagination then your posts take on a more sinister side IMO cos all you seem to want to do is change facts.  Why?

[sadie]

I don't wish to get involved in the personal spat going on, so please just take this as some factual information.

I have walked along that passageway at night, more than once, to check out a few points.

It is very definitely dark.  There is one street light near the W end, and one near the E end.  Apart from that, I can only remember a single bulkhead light half way along.  I would definitely describe it as dark.

I would not describe it as scary.  I never once saw a person, a dog, a cat or even a mouse.  I have always felt comfortable in the dark, so maybe that is just a me thing.

Thank you Sil. 

I appreciate that you have stood up and backed me by telling the truth as it is.

You are a man and Jane is a woman.  Scaredness differs between the sexes, I think

Nah, Jane didn't walk down that alleyway.  Apart from the dark it is reported by too many people that she went past Gerry and Jez chatting and carried on up Rua Dr FGM.  I think Amaral actually says it in his video of the abduction period

[sadie]

Well in this case the back passage has low walls to either side.
 
Where should he have been going?   It was only circa 9 pm he may well have been going to night crèche to drop off his child as opposed to collecting her.  Or he may have collected child and when arriving back at apartment realised he didn't have his key so returned to Millennium to collect from his wife.  The night crèche was only available to MW guests dining at Millennium or Tapas and we know he wasn't dining at tapas so unless he was flouting the rules he must have been dining at Millennium.  I think I'm right in saying the package included dinner at Millennium or Tapas?

No it wasn't 9 pm; it was later, about 9.20pm(ish) IIRC.

The Millenium restaurant is in the wrong direction, so that cant be the case.

Soz.

[sadie]

Well in this case the back passage has low walls to either side.
 
Where should he have been going?   It was only circa 9 pm he may well have been going to night crèche to drop off his child as opposed to collecting her.  Or he may have collected child and when arriving back at apartment realised he didn't have his key so returned to Millennium to collect from his wife.  The night crèche was only available to MW guests dining at Millennium or Tapas and we know he wasn't dining at tapas so unless he was flouting the rules he must have been dining at Millennium.  I think I'm right in saying the package included dinner at Millennium or Tapas?

The Alleyway (back passage lol) doesn't have high walls BUT they were not low either.  The ground was not flat, but I would think thay were mainly about chest high on most people ... and with shrubs above.  you only have to look at some of the images to realise the height.  They were NOT low walls.

[G-Unit]

Off topic and a personal dig.

I'm just wondering why someone would claim to be male in their profile and then claim to be female in their posts. If your gender is a personal secret then perhaps you should stop talking publicly about it.

[Eleanor]

The Alleyway (back passage lol) doesn't have high walls BUT they were not low either.  The ground was not flat, but I would think thay were mainly about chest high on most people ... and with shrubs above.  you only have to look at some of the images to realise the height.  They were NOT low walls.

Sadie knows more about this than any of us.  Such a pity that so many of her comments are discarded or mocked.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I'm just wondering why someone would claim to be male in their profile and then claim to be female in their posts. If your gender is a personal secret then perhaps you should stop talking publicly about it.

Why don't you keep your wonderings to yourself?  I've stated my gender and that should be an end to it.

[jassi]

Why don't you keep your wonderings to yourself?  I've stated my gender and that should be an end to it.

Fine though I don't see why you're uptight about it in the first place.
We're all anonymous on here and sex/gender is irrelevant.
Its not as if anyone is going to ask you out on a date

[Vertigo Swirl]

Fine though I don't see why you're uptight about it in the first place.
We're all anonymous on here and sex/gender is irrelevant.
Its not as if anyone is going to ask you out on a date

I'm not uptight about it, I'm just calling out the sneery comments from one who is supposedly above such things, taking as she does the moral high ground on everything. 

[Brietta]

Sadie knows more about this than any of us.  Such a pity that so many of her comments are discarded or mocked.

Unlike some Sadie is punctilious in analysing other posts and discussing what is said in a sensible and moderate manner.  She is one of the posters who attracted me to the forum; believe it or not another is Angelo who sometimes also talks a lot of sense.

If she has got a point wrong she is the first to admit it without rancour and take account of it but she is very seldom wrong in anything of real substance when expressing her well researched conclusions.
I think her enquiring mind and her dignity in sharing what she has learned about Madeleine's case is a credit to the ethos of the forum.

I believe her comments are attacked or mocked for the simple reason that she is a truthful and very effective poster.

[G-Unit]

No it wasn't 9 pm; it was later, about 9.20pm(ish) IIRC.

The Millenium restaurant is in the wrong direction, so that cant be the case.

Soz.

The man Jane Tanner claimed to have seen was heading east along the R. do Ramalhete. The Millenium Restaurant is in that direction.

[Brietta]

Maybe better get back to the topic.

The right hand ground floor apartment in block 4 was also burgled and like 5A was fortified later with railings.

I don't know if the gable end properties at the other end of these blocks had also been broken into. 
But in effect I think we are more aware of the vulnerability of 5A and the inherent weakness of its security because of what happened there.

Due to the prevalence of burglaries in the resort I don't think there is one apartment more exposed than the others.
I think they were all equally at risk.