The reports of a man seen walking with a child in his arms

[sika]

Do you think if Gerry did find his daughter had died because of  some terrible accident, either through sedation or eing left on their own, he would be thinking logically ?

I hope you don't mind me asking and please don't feel obliged to answer but, are you a parent?
Your quote above leads me to think that you are not.

I'm not a parent Sika.

Thanks Faithlilly, I hope you don't feel that you're being 'ganged up on'. I very much appreciate you hanging around and giving your opinions.
The reason I asked that rather personal question was, as a parent, I cannot imagine a scenario where a father finds his child dead, hurriedly dumps her body and then conspires with other parents to cover up the death. It's a total non starter for me, I'm afraid.

[Eleanor]

@ Sika Until we learn the truth about that night I'm afraid we won't know what binds them together in this lie.

@debunker Both Martin Smith and his wife were certain enough of their identification to contact the police. Even in a court of law two individuals identifying the same perpetrator would be compelling evidence.

You are perpetuating another Myth.  Mrs. Smith did not say that she recognised Gerry McCann.  And nor did the rest of the family agree.

[John]

Witnesses identification does not change with the passage of time so why would her opinion have changed ?

Psychological research clearly shows that facial recognition recall changes with time, alternatives, history and expectations.

Martin Smith's recall was not based on facial recognition.

SAme goes for all recognition and recall, including gait, kinetics, posture etc.

I'm afraid if witness recognition was as unreliable as you say the police would not rely so heavily on eyewitness testimony.

Fact is eyewitness testimony has been discredited in so many miscarriage of justice cases.  If you give two people the same subject to look at the odds are they will report two different things.  Human nature.

[debunker]

@ Sika Until we learn the truth about that night I'm afraid we won't know what binds them together in this lie.

@debunker Both Martin Smith and his wife were certain enough of their identification to contact the police. Even in a court of law two individuals identifying the same perpetrator would be compelling evidence.

You are perpetuating another Myth.  Mrs. Smith did not say that she recognised Gerry McCann.  And nor did the rest of the family agree.

I thought it was wrong but as its not my area of expertise I expressed my doubts in a limited fashion. Perhaps we need to get the actual statements cited here. Damned antimyths- stamp one down and another one appears. Tissue of myth and misunderstanding.

[debunker]

Here, posted unread:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

[registrar]

Lest we forget that the street lighting at the time in Luz was very poor.

I reckon an experienced investigator would have taken that into account when evaluating the validity of any witness statement pertaining to that night.

[faithlilly]

Lest we forget that the street lighting at the time in Luz was very poor.

I reckon an experienced investigator would have taken that into account when evaluating the validity of any witness statement pertaining to that night.

Perhaps that explains why the PJ gave very little credence to Tanner's sighting.

[debunker]

Lest we forget that the street lighting at the time in Luz was very poor.

I reckon an experienced investigator would have taken that into account when evaluating the validity of any witness statement pertaining to that night.

Perhaps that explains why the PJ gave very little credence to Tanner's sighting.

EIther that or it did not fit their prejudices

[Meadow]

Do you think if Gerry did find his daughter had died because of  some terrible accident, either through sedation or eing left on their own, he would be thinking logically ?

I hope you don't mind me asking and please don't feel obliged to answer but, are you a parent?
Your quote above leads me to think that you are not.

I'm not a parent Sika.

Thanks Faithlilly, I hope you don't feel that you're being 'ganged up on'. I very much appreciate you hanging around and giving your opinions.
The reason I asked that rather personal question was, as a parent, I cannot imagine a scenario where a father finds his child dead, hurriedly dumps her body and then conspires with other parents to cover up the death. It's a total non starter for me, I'm afraid.

And as a parent, can you imagine for one minute that you would have left three children in an unlocked ground floor apartment for four nights?  Whilst you dined out of EAR SHOT, never mind what you thought you could or couldn't see, or how frequently you or others checked.  This wasn't one off, it's wasn't casual it was systematic, perhaps it was what exposed Madeleine to the risk leading to her disappearance.

But whilst you are pondering that thought, when a child mentions they were crying the night before, still go out.  I don't intend to get into the debate of what Madeleine meant, or what time she was referring to, since children of her age are not good historians,.  Suffice to say, the witness Mrs Fenn heard crying from the apartment on the Tuesday for over an hour.

[sika]

Hi Meadow, I wouldn't even leave mine in the day nursery, never mind leave them alone for the evening.
However, I know a few good, loving, caring parents who may have done the same as the McCanns and their friends.

[Meadow]

I couldn't and certainly don't with the grand children, even more so than my son.

But, when you look at the risks of all the children between the group, only M and one of JT's children slept in a bed.  So potentially the environment wouldn't have posed an hazard to the younger children in cots.

That leaves the two children in beds.  JT in her Roggie interview made it clear that she deadlocked the door so her daughter couldn't get out.

So, let's go full circle about your friends.  Do they do it with children who are independent enough to go to the toilet, be alarmed if they wonder around the apartment & find themselves alone?  And lastly, in a ground floor, public accessible area, leave the door unlocked.

I will be very interested in the trial of Bridger over the disappearance of April Jones, and his rather strange plea of 'probably killing her'  ... or something along those lines. Here's a man, friend of the family - talking in riddles and will not confirm where she is. Why?!  Surely he is trapped.  So you would think, but that's the problem of human behaviour.  Expect the unexpected.  Then there's the case of Tia Sharp, wrapped in black-poly bags & put in the loft.

Always the case goes full circle.  An opportunist abductor, no transport, why take the biggest !

[sika]

I couldn't and certainly don't with the grand children, even more so than my son.

But, when you look at the risks of all the children between the group, only M and one of JT's children slept in a bed.  So potentially the environment wouldn't have posed an hazard to the younger children in cots.

That leaves the two children in beds.  JT in her Roggie interview made it clear that she deadlocked the door so her daughter couldn't get out.

So, let's go full circle about your friends.  Do they do it with children who are independent enough to go to the toilet, be alarmed if they wonder around the apartment & find themselves alone?  And lastly, in a ground floor, public accessible area, leave the door unlocked.

I will be very interested in the trial of Bridger over the disappearance of April Jones, and his rather strange plea of 'probably killing her'  ... or something along those lines. Here's a man, friend of the family - talking in riddles and will not confirm where she is. Why?!  Surely he is trapped.  So you would think, but that's the problem of human behaviour.  Expect the unexpected.  Then there's the case of Tia Sharp, wrapped in black-poly bags & put in the loft.

Always the case goes full circle.  An opportunist abductor, no transport, why take the biggest !

The one single, most important piece of evidence, as far as I'm concerned is the sighting of the mystery man carrying the child. I find it impossible to believe that the man carrying her was Gerry, as this would have meant that many others would have been covering for him. So, it wasn't Gerry. That means that despite the enormous, immediate
Public appeal, the mystery man didn't come forward. I find this, also, most improbable, if that man was innocent of any crime.

[stephen25000]

Have you considered the possibility that some of the Mccanns associates did indeed collude to cover up what really happened to Madeleine ?

I remember the meeting they had in a Rothley Hotel after their return to the UK to 'discuss' the case.

Tanner's sighting is unproven and lacks any backing.

It was getting dark with minimum street lighting, and we have seen the 'image' produced from the so called sighting.

It could well be the case that no one has come forward because there was no sighting in the first place.

Mr. Smith believes it was probably G.Mccann.  So why would Mr. Smith lie  ?

[sika]

I believe that Mr Smith, did indeed think that he may have seen Gerry with Maddie. He is no where near 100% sure that he did however.
I believe that Mrs Tanners later recollection of her sighting, is as unreliable as Mr Smiths.

I can't believe for one second, that all those individuals colluded in order to conceal her death. Why would they?

Because they were all 'guilty' of leaving their children unattended?

[sika]

Have you considered the possibility that some of the Mccanns associates did indeed collude to cover up what really happened to Madeleine ?

I remember the meeting they had in a Rothley Hotel after their return to the UK to 'discuss' the case.

Tanner's sighting is unproven and lacks any backing.

It was getting dark with minimum street lighting, and we have seen the 'image' produced from the so called sighting.

It could well be the case that no one has come forward because there was no sighting in the first place.

Mr. Smith believes it was probably G.Mccann.  So why would Mr. Smith lie  ?

You suggest that there may have been no sighting in the first place.
Are you also suggesting that all nine of the Smith family, were mistaken?