Author Topic: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.  (Read 32767 times)

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Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #210 on: April 27, 2020, 02:52:49 PM »
Who is ymathising with whom?

Your friend’s little dog who you kicked in his nose

Yyyyyyelp!
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #211 on: April 27, 2020, 03:01:13 PM »
Forensic and pathological evidence is not the panacea that TV shows such as CSI and Silent Witness have lead us to believe and cases are rarely solved in the first few weeks. One thing common to those TV shows though is that the protagonists often learn the hard way about making assumptions instead of following the evidence.

As you rightly point out, the physical evidence did not initially ring any alarm bells, Sheila could have battered her already injured father, swinging the rifle over her head like a club as evidenced by the broken lampshade and she could have shot herself twice but Taff Jones and others were blinkered to other possibilities by the assumptions made at the very beginning.

It's disingenuous to say that the case turned on only two issues and ignore the emerging pattern of evidence over the course of that month and beyond -

Dr Vanesis said he would have expressed concerns about the clean state of SC had he been called to the scene.

The complete lack of any forensic evidence on Sheila, no blood, wax on her nightie or lead on her hands from supposedly loading the cartridges, no cuts on her feet despite there being broken glass all over the kitchen. (No sugar either) 

The admissions made by JB himself after JM had grassed him up regarding entering WHF via the windows, the burglary ridiculously passed off as "testing security" and sneaking a peak at the wills in the safe.

The hacksaw blade that was found to match scratch marks on the window catch.

JB breaking in to WHF after his arrest to get his car documents - or pretending he did to explain any forensic evidence that he didn't know had not yet been found.

The bike at Goldhanger that had mud on the sides of the tyres.

The parts of his wetsuit found at WHF 

The evidence of JMs flatmates that cast doubt on the timing of the call to her and thus JBs account of NBs supposed call and when he called the police, which he already contradicted himself with between interviews.

The mysterious lack of towels in his bathroom - who doesn't leave a hand towel in the bathroom? JBs explanation that he kept them in the airing cupboard lacks sense -bath towels yes, but who would go to the toilet, wash their hands and then go to the airing cupboard to dry them? ( I think the washing machine had been on too but not sure )

Bamber beratting PC West and asking what was taking so long, "my father sounded terrified" - directly contradicting his own tardy actions.

Bamber standing outside telling police about all the guns in the house and that SC was familiar with them all but later admitting he had never seen her fire one as an adult.

Stan Jones overhearing JB laughing on the morning of the murders that set him on his trail.

JM was not the only witness to give evidence of JBs expressed dislike of his family either - he would bitch about them to anyone that would listen.

Once the police started to look at JB with suspicion, things changed until the conclusion EP had been on the wrong track couldn't be ignored.


Agree with you, CS.

But Dr Vanezis certainly didn’t agree that Sheila could have beaten Nevill with the ferocity he  received when he inspected the soc.

Nor could she have have reached the lampshade in her struggle, and Nevill couldn’t have because if he had managed to grab the gun from her hands he’d still be alive now.

But everything else you said is absolutely correct.

How anyone can refute that is beyond me...
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 03:35:23 PM by Ispywithmybigeye »
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #212 on: April 27, 2020, 03:07:53 PM »
So if EP believed JB hook line and sinker why did DCI Jones check all the windows and doors?

Why did soc officers swing into action taking hundreds of images, collecting and documenting exhibits for forensic examination? 

The case has and will always hang on the blood/silencer evidence.  If it didn't the CCRC would not have referred the case to CoA in 2002 on the back of this.


Holly, FIVE people had been shot dead.

Did you expect the police to call the undertakers, remove the bodies, then just close the doors?

Of course they had to search the property, take photographs and exhibits.



Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #213 on: April 27, 2020, 03:13:28 PM »
So if EP believed JB hook line and sinker why did DCI Jones check all the windows and doors?

Why did soc officers swing into action taking hundreds of images, collecting and documenting exhibits for forensic examination? 

The case has and will always hang on the blood/silencer evidence.  If it didn't the CCRC would not have referred the case to CoA in 2002 on the back of this.

Why did the CCRC send Simon Halls murder conviction to the CoA Holly?

And what lessons, if any, do you think they’ve learned since then?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 03:23:37 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #214 on: April 27, 2020, 03:27:11 PM »

I’m willing to provide links when I have them  at hand, but I’m not going to search through hundreds of documents/screenshots simply because you don’t want to belive me, Holly.  I’ve spent a huge amount of my time on here, and that’s my choice, I know that, but I’m usually busy with other things too and can’t afford the time to search through hundreds and hundreds of documents whilst neglecting important things.

Of course, if I can find them quickly, I’d happily give links (which I have done frequently) but as this is a discussion board and not a court , I don’t see why I should show evidence when anyone can Google as well as I can and see they’re correct; plus, some on here — including yourself — give scenarios (which I seldom do) and expect people to consider them seriously when you’ve dreamt them up.

As regards quality of posts, posting screenshots of minutes from a court can be boring and long-winded to many: yes, many of my posts may be long, but that shows I’ve taken time to explain rather than than just giving a retort that’s of no value. If you find it tiresome reading through explanations, I can try and shorten them for you.  But maybe you won’t understand the point I’m making if I leave details out. I’m sure you know court proceedings can drag on forever, and many people find much of it boring, but it’s essential to listen otherwise you’ll never get a true understanding of the facts. But this isn’t a court, Holly — it’s a forum — and we’re not under the same restrictions.

Finally, I really can’t be bothered to report someone for making a stupid swipe....this is an adult forum, not a playground.  If I may be so bold, perhaps you could lighten up a little and instead of wearing your Admins hat and monitoring who’s been “playing up” , then issuing warnings and sanctions to behave, you’d fare better in the long run. Who knows: you may get your own fanny club! That’s providing you don’t start issuing penalty fines...no-one likes traffic wardens

But you seem to think you are above the high level rules of the forum which you're not. 

The rules are not overly pedantic or prescriptive.  They have been put in place for the benefit and protection of everyone. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4.msg34336#msg34336

My reconstruction is based on all the physical evidence collected and documented from the soc.  Others might disagree with my interpretation of how I've weaved them together but the individual strands are all documented in the material.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Common sense

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #215 on: April 27, 2020, 03:27:38 PM »

Agree with you, CS.

But Dr Vanezis certainly didn’t agree that Sheila could have beaten Nevill with the ferocity he re received when he inspected the sic.

Nor could she have have reached the lampshade in her struggle, and Nevill couldn’t have because if he had managed to grab the gun from her hands he’d still be alive now.

But everything else you said is absolutely correct.

How anyone can refute that is beyond me...

AFAIK, Vanesis didn't disagree either, just as he couldn't rule out murder or suicide from his examinations.  The prosecution didn't argue that Sheila couldn't possibly have beaten her already injured father, they argued that it was much more likely to have been Jeremy - who was also visibly uninjured. There is no reason to assume the struggle was anything but brief and one sided.  A good left hook from NB might have changed the whole picture but there is no evidence he got the chance. 

I'm afraid I don't understand the idea that only Jeremy could have smashed the lightshade with a 4ft rifle?

 

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #216 on: April 27, 2020, 03:29:09 PM »
Why did the CCRC send Simon Halls murder conviction to the CoA Holly?

And what lessons, if any, do you think they’ve learned since then?

SH's conviction was upheld so no lessons to be learned.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #217 on: April 27, 2020, 03:41:50 PM »
The case has and will always hang on the blood/silencer evidence.  If it didn't the CCRC would not have referred the case to CoA in 2002 on the back of this.

Why did the CCRC send Simon Halls murder conviction to the CoA Holly?

And what lessons, if any, do you think they’ve learned since then?

SH's conviction was upheld so no lessons to be learned.

Bambers convictions were ‘upheld so no lessons to be learned’

And - unlike the Bamber case - the CCRC began a second review not long after the CoA upheld the murder conviction
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 03:48:41 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #218 on: April 27, 2020, 04:05:08 PM »
But you seem to think you are above the high level rules of the forum which you're not. 

The rules are not overly pedantic or prescriptive.  They have been put in place for the benefit and protection of everyone. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4.msg34336#msg34336

My reconstruction is based on all the physical evidence collected and documented from the soc.  Others might disagree with my interpretation of how I've weaved them together but the individual strands are all documented in the material.


You’re being presumptuous again, Holly.

I most certainly do not think I’m above everyone — that’s in YOUR head. I was brought up to treat everyone equally, and I do, but if rude people want to goad me, I will react, usually subtly as I have self-respect. It’s always on social media that strangers occasionally have a swipe, and I usually ignore them as they’re of no consequence. You may be surprised to know I have a huge following on SM, but I’m anonymous here which is just as I like it. If I revealed the thousands of of people who followed me (or let them know) you’d be bombarded with people who would probably agree with every post I made. And I don’t want that as it’s such a serious subject.

And I’m not arrogant in any shape or form, but equally, if someone is disrespectful I will retaliate. Why should I allow someone to be rude simply because they disagree with my views? I respect everyone, whoever they are, unless they act disrespectfully and goad/insult me. I don’t tolerate bullies; they’re cowardly weaklings and I refuse to be disrespected by such people.

If someone is pleasant, I’ll be pleasant back. It’s as simple as that.

You may find this strange, but I admire you in many ways, despite how I can’t fathom out why you’re so intent in helping a mass murderer to to try and get free. You’re rather complex. And that’s intriguing. You claim you’re doing it because you’re adopted, but that doesn’t add up. There’s something else you’re doing it for — it could be you're infatuated; it could be you want to write a book; it could be several things...but I don’t believe you’ve spent years of of your life out of sympathy because you wrongly believe he is innocent. You’re not that gullible.

 
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #219 on: April 27, 2020, 04:44:06 PM »
Knowing someone doesn't mean you know all about them.
Nor does being their psychologist but presumably you would defer to them as the experts when it came to your own family members?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #220 on: April 27, 2020, 04:52:04 PM »
Opps! The spelling/typo police have arrived - again, I thought you didn't like goading?
Only when it's directed at her.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #221 on: April 27, 2020, 05:20:45 PM »
AFAIK, Vanesis didn't disagree either, just as he couldn't rule out murder or suicide from his examinations.  The prosecution didn't argue that Sheila couldn't possibly have beaten her already injured father, they argued that it was much more likely to have been Jeremy - who was also visibly uninjured. There is no reason to assume the struggle was anything but brief and one sided.  A good left hook from NB might have changed the whole picture but there is no evidence he got the chance. 

I'm afraid I don't understand the idea that only Jeremy could have smashed the lightshade with a 4ft rifle?

 

Dr Vanezis  didn’t rule ANYTHING out when doing the post mortems: he was guided by Taff Jones who was present at the PM, who told Dr Vanezis  it was definitely a murder/suicide.  Dr Vanezis was unsure, given the injuries he saw, but as Taff was so insistent — and had brought no photographs of the soc with the victims in situ, nor brought the rifle (murder weapon) Dr Vanezis reluctantly agreed with Taff that it was possible Sheila had committed the murders and then killed herself. But he stressed it was unusual and very strange, and so unusual for a suicide victim to shoot themselves twice.

Dr Vanezis had no reason to doubt Taff; he was a DCI and accepted his account. But he didn’t know at that time how rumours were flying around about Taff’s bizarre behaviour. Some even thought he may have had a brain tumour, but that’s never been established. It’s possible he was in the midst of a breakdown: who knows? Whatever, his behaviour was so bizarre that he was soon thrown off the case and told to take leave...

However, when Dr Vanezis visited WHF the next day with police officers, it became apparent to him that Sheila could not possibly have killed herself, nor beaten Nevill to a pulp. He was horrified. He was angry too. He made a complaint because Taff hadn’t given him any of the photographic evidence; the rifle itself; when he carried out the post mortems. Dr Vanezis had vast experience: he was a lecturer and had carried out thousands of post mortems. He said later that had he seen the soc and rifle, he’d have known immediately that Sheila could not possibly have killed herself, nor beaten Nevill so violently.

Police also proved that Sheila couldn’t have reached the light fitting which smashed into smithereens. Yes, it’s possible in the violent struggle that Nevill could have, but that means he’d have had more control over the rifle and have been able to disarm her. Indeed, Nevill could have disarmed her when she supposedly cut the line off as he was supposedly talking to Jeremy — so the fact he didn’t proves he was overpowered by someone much stronger, bigger and taller than Sheila.

As for suggesting the struggle was brief and one-sided, that would mean Sheila had the strength of Superman and poleaxed Nevill in seconds. That’s simply not true. The struggle went on long enough for Nevill to fight his attacker to the extent that they fought fiercely for the rifle, so much so, that it caused gauges in the underside of the mantel. That wasn’t brief...

Nor could it have been brief for chairs to overturn; the large heavy dining table to veer across the room; stalls to upend; cutlery and bowls to smash down causing glass, china and sugar to scatter all across the floor; the kitchen mat to slide across the room, and ornaments to fall and smash.

You need to remember that Sheila was half Nevill’s size, she was weak, shaky, listless and had no coordination. She was heavily tranquillised which is also debilitating, and what’s more, she adored her father...

You might think under the circumstances a good left hook from Nevill would have been the last resort to end the struggle, but Sheila had not one mark on her face...

Jeremy was apparently wearing a rubber scuba mask along with his wetsuit, so even if Nevill got the chance to punch him, during being poleaxed across the skull exposing his brain, and then shot four times in the head, it’s unlikely any punches would have even reached Jeremy....

I think logic tells us who the murdered was, CS.

And that’s why the jury found Jeremy Bamber guilty.

Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #222 on: April 27, 2020, 06:53:43 PM »
Dr Vanezis  didn’t rule ANYTHING out when doing the post mortems: he was guided by Taff Jones who was present at the PM, who told Dr Vanezis  it was definitely a murder/suicide.  Dr Vanezis was unsure, given the injuries he saw, but as Taff was so insistent — and had brought no photographs of the soc with the victims in situ, nor brought the rifle (murder weapon) Dr Vanezis reluctantly agreed with Taff that it was possible Sheila had committed the murders and then killed herself. But he stressed it was unusual and very strange, and so unusual for a suicide victim to shoot themselves twice.

Dr Vanezis had no reason to doubt Taff; he was a DCI and accepted his account. But he didn’t know at that time how rumours were flying around about Taff’s bizarre behaviour. Some even thought he may have had a brain tumour, but that’s never been established. It’s possible he was in the midst of a breakdown: who knows? Whatever, his behaviour was so bizarre that he was soon thrown off the case and told to take leave...

However, when Dr Vanezis visited WHF the next day with police officers, it became apparent to him that Sheila could not possibly have killed herself, nor beaten Nevill to a pulp. He was horrified. He was angry too. He made a complaint because Taff hadn’t given him any of the photographic evidence; the rifle itself; when he carried out the post mortems. Dr Vanezis had vast experience: he was a lecturer and had carried out thousands of post mortems. He said later that had he seen the soc and rifle, he’d have known immediately that Sheila could not possibly have killed herself, nor beaten Nevill so violently.

Police also proved that Sheila couldn’t have reached the light fitting which smashed into smithereens. Yes, it’s possible in the violent struggle that Nevill could have, but that means he’d have had more control over the rifle and have been able to disarm her. Indeed, Nevill could have disarmed her when she supposedly cut the line off as he was supposedly talking to Jeremy — so the fact he didn’t proves he was overpowered by someone much stronger, bigger and taller than Sheila.

As for suggesting the struggle was brief and one-sided, that would mean Sheila had the strength of Superman and poleaxed Nevill in seconds. That’s simply not true. The struggle went on long enough for Nevill to fight his attacker to the extent that they fought fiercely for the rifle, so much so, that it caused gauges in the underside of the mantel. That wasn’t brief...

Nor could it have been brief for chairs to overturn; the large heavy dining table to veer across the room; stalls to upend; cutlery and bowls to smash down causing glass, china and sugar to scatter all across the floor; the kitchen mat to slide across the room, and ornaments to fall and smash.

You need to remember that Sheila was half Nevill’s size, she was weak, shaky, listless and had no coordination. She was heavily tranquillised which is also debilitating, and what’s more, she adored her father...

You might think under the circumstances a good left hook from Nevill would have been the last resort to end the struggle, but Sheila had not one mark on her face...

Jeremy was apparently wearing a rubber scuba mask along with his wetsuit, so even if Nevill got the chance to punch him, during being poleaxed across the skull exposing his brain, and then shot four times in the head, it’s unlikely any punches would have even reached Jeremy....

I think logic tells us who the murdered was, CS.

And that’s why the jury found Jeremy Bamber guilty.

You're making things up. Those present at the post mortem were DI Miller, DI Cook, DS Davidson and PC Wright.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
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Ignore and break the rules
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Offline Caroline

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #223 on: April 27, 2020, 06:58:54 PM »
But you seem to think you are above the high level rules of the forum which you're not. 

The rules are not overly pedantic or prescriptive.  They have been put in place for the benefit and protection of everyone. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4.msg34336#msg34336

My reconstruction is based on all the physical evidence collected and documented from the soc.  Others might disagree with my interpretation of how I've weaved them together but the individual strands are all documented in the material.

As are other people's.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #224 on: April 27, 2020, 07:28:58 PM »

You’re being presumptuous again, Holly.

I most certainly do not think I’m above everyone — that’s in YOUR head. I was brought up to treat everyone equally, and I do, but if rude people want to goad me, I will react, usually subtly as I have self-respect. It’s always on social media that strangers occasionally have a swipe, and I usually ignore them as they’re of no consequence. You may be surprised to know I have a huge following on SM, but I’m anonymous here which is just as I like it. If I revealed the thousands of of people who followed me (or let them know) you’d be bombarded with people who would probably agree with every post I made. And I don’t want that as it’s such a serious subject.

And I’m not arrogant in any shape or form, but equally, if someone is disrespectful I will retaliate. Why should I allow someone to be rude simply because they disagree with my views? I respect everyone, whoever they are, unless they act disrespectfully and goad/insult me. I don’t tolerate bullies; they’re cowardly weaklings and I refuse to be disrespected by such people.

If someone is pleasant, I’ll be pleasant back. It’s as simple as that.

You may find this strange, but I admire you in many ways, despite how I can’t fathom out why you’re so intent in helping a mass murderer to to try and get free. You’re rather complex. And that’s intriguing. You claim you’re doing it because you’re adopted, but that doesn’t add up. There’s something else you’re doing it for — it could be you're infatuated; it could be you want to write a book; it could be several things...but I don’t believe you’ve spent years of of your life out of sympathy because you wrongly believe he is innocent. You’re not that gullible.

I didn't say you think you're above everyone.  I said you think you're above the forum rules and you're not no matter who you are or what your following is on sm. 

Please stick to the rules:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4.msg34336#msg34336
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?