Re-evaluation of the blood and silencer evidence

[Brietta]

You are conflating the blood serology tests undertaken in 1985 and the DNA tests undertaken in 2002.

The former found the blood flake matched SC's blood groups which at the time were shared by 8% of the white British population.

The latter concluded the following:

497. We, therefore, consider the matter on the basis that the conclusions to be drawn from the DNA evidence are:

i) June Bamber's DNA was in the sound moderator at the time of the DNA examination;

ii) Sheila Caffell's DNA may have been in the sound moderator but it was not possible to conclude one way or the other whether it was; and

iii) there was evidence of DNA from at least one male.

And of course the above doesn't prove how the blood came to be in the silencer.

I am conflating nothing.
My post concerned the finding of human blood deep within the sound moderator of a rifle used to shoot five people.

My post didn't mention anything at all about Sheila Caffell's blood group. 
You made the connection which prompted your defensive reaction goes to prove my assertion that a reasonable deduction can be arrived at from the available information.  Well done!

[Holly Goodhead]

I am conflating nothing.
My post concerned the finding of human blood deep within the sound moderator of a rifle used to shoot five people.

My post didn't mention anything at all about Sheila Caffell's blood group. 
You made the connection which prompted your defensive reaction goes to prove my assertion that a reasonable deduction can be arrived at from the available information.  Well done!

You have changed your post quite dramatically since I responded to it:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg589876#msg589876

[Holly Goodhead]

You have changed your post quite dramatically since I responded to it:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg589876#msg589876

And you went into my post too to edit your post:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg589879#msg589879

[Brietta]

You have changed your post quite dramatically since I responded to it:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg589876#msg589876

You are mistaken and as a result you are accusing me of impropriety.

I am not stupid enough to change my post "dramatically" in the full knowledge that my name would appear under any dishonest modification.

Of course you may consider changing a typo consisting of one word "dramatic"???

I had originally typed ... "White House Fire".
I changed that to ... "White House Farm" and that is absolutely the only change I made, Fire to Farm.

A quick check of the timings would have avoided your confusion and an attack on my integrity ... please allow me to elucidate.

• « Last Reported: May 11, 2020, 10:30:29 PM »
  « Reported By: Brietta »
  When a post is reported a record is created in a log and this is a record of my original post complete with typo. Moderators have access to this to allow us to check on reported posts
• « Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 10:31:00 PM by Brietta » Which is when I amended the typo in my post
• « Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 10:31:43 PM by Brietta » Which is when I amended the typo in my post within Holly's reply to it, the time of which can be clearly seen below making it an absolute impossibility for me to have performed as I am accused
  « Reply #251 on: May 11, 2020, 08:23:57 PM » Holly

[Nicholas]

So he said !  I came across him on another forum, which I joined at the time the TV series was airing (I have since left it).

I specifically asked him if he was involved with the CT. He said that when the CT began to be run by different people , they didn't want to work with him any more. I didn't ask him why. I also don't know when the CT changed its "management", as I don't follow it; nor do I have much to do with Twitter.

I don't know how accurate SL is or isn't in his book, but he seems a tolerant and reasonable man, unlike some "supporters" whom I came across on the same forum!

This is what Scott Lomax told the express in February 2020

“I have met Jeremy Bamber several times in prison. I have also spoken to him on the phone countless times and exchanged around 200 letters with him, since March 2003.

“I first met him at Full Sutton a Prison in October 2004. He is an intelligent man who describes himself as an ‘old pro’ in terms of campaigning.

“He is a very charming man who comes across as very confident but he has always struck me as someone who is putting on a brave face.

“It has always been apparent to me that he is very concerned about pleasing other people, including his supporters. From what I understand from those who knew him before his arrest, he has always been like this and has been too trusting of people who have then let him down. 

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1240858/White-House-Farm-where-is-Jeremy-Bamber-today-prison-life-sentence-ITV-series

[mrswah]

This is what Scott Lomax told the express in February 2020

“I have met Jeremy Bamber several times in prison. I have also spoken to him on the phone countless times and exchanged around 200 letters with him, since March 2003.

“I first met him at Full Sutton a Prison in October 2004. He is an intelligent man who describes himself as an ‘old pro’ in terms of campaigning.

“He is a very charming man who comes across as very confident but he has always struck me as someone who is putting on a brave face.

“It has always been apparent to me that he is very concerned about pleasing other people, including his supporters. From what I understand from those who knew him before his arrest, he has always been like this and has been too trusting of people who have then let him down. 

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1240858/White-House-Farm-where-is-Jeremy-Bamber-today-prison-life-sentence-ITV-series

I assume you disagree!

Whether or not Scott Lomax is right or wrong (and I suspect he is partly right and partly wrong), he has, at least, met JB,  so, in my opinion, is fully entitled to comment.

[Nicholas]

I assume you disagree!

Scott Lomax is lying to his readers and lying to himself

This is what Scott Lomax told the express in February 2020

“It has always been apparent to me that he is very concerned about pleasing other people, including his supporters. From what I understand from those who knew him before his arrest, he has always been like this and has been too trusting of people who have then let him down.[/i] 

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1240858/White-House-Farm-where-is-Jeremy-Bamber-today-prison-life-sentence-ITV-series

Would be interested to know who exactly Lomax is referring to when he states - ‘those who knew him before‘ ?

Re the Osea Road burglary and from someone who knew Bamber before prison

‘According to Barbara Wilson, Nevill Bamber was aware his son was guilty and it troubled him deeply: “He told me himself that Jeremy was responsible for the holiday camp break in. But he never reported him, probably because he hoped it was a lapse on Jeremy’s part.

Jeremy proclaimed himself ‘ashamed’ twenty-five years later: “I shouldn’t have done what I did in the way that I did it.’ He had cause to regret it at his trial in 1986, since the crown prosecution used the burglary as a gauge of his ethics: ‘They tried to say that my actions there mirrored the fact that I was prepared to do a crime out of greed and disrespect for my family.”

Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from the book ‘The murders at White House Farm’
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=jeremy+bamber+chinese+trick+box&source=bl&ots=jQH-J5AeC1&sig=ACfU3U0BryXpogrDnkw5Ikx_1Yk1kH8qaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ6q_iy6vpAhWTilwKHc-SDNQQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20chinese%20trick%20box&f=false

[Myster]

No he said the rifle with the sights and silencer on wouldn't fit in the case not the cupboard.

Source: MF's trial testimony

That was only M.Fletcher's cross-examination, but where has Bamber ever claimed anything, whether in his statements, interviews or court testimony, about the fully-equipped rifle being fitted in a case?  AP noted that when he saw the complete rifle in the cupboard a week or so before, it wasn't in a case.

[John]

Could moderators please attend the moderator room please.

[Caroline]

Could moderators please attend the moderator room please.

You have your own room? How posh is that! 

[John]

You have your own room? How posh is that! 

Yes, mods and admins have their own areas away from the public boards.

ETA. It goes without saying that social distancing rules apply.

[Holly Goodhead]

That was only M.Fletcher's cross-examination, but where has Bamber ever claimed anything, whether in his statements, interviews or court testimony, about the fully-equipped rifle being fitted in a case?  AP noted that when he saw the complete rifle in the cupboard a week or so before, it wasn't in a case.

[Holly Goodhead]

Just to simplify matters.

Let us look at what we know about the Anschutz rifle and more importantly the sound moderator.

• the rifle was used to control vermin on the farm
• the blood recovered from the sound moderator was human and had been contributed by three different people (two females and one male)
• it was not possible to 'plant' blood in the position inside the moderator where it was found

Given that the weapon used to murder the family in White House Farm was the Anschutz I think a reasonable deduction can be arrived at from the information I've posted above.

- The rifle was used to control vermin.

- Unlike the other blood stained exhibits I can't see that the blood supposedly found inside the silencer was subjected to the test to determine human blood:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7083.msg315135#msg315135

However we are told a flake of blood measuring a 1/4 of an inch was found trapped under the first and second baffle plate.  The flake was apparently cut into 5 parts for the 5 separate blood group tests.  The tests showed the flake matched SC's groups which at the time were shared by 8% of the white British population.

-  When the silencer was subjected to LCN DNA testing for the 2002 appeal the court concluded the following:

497. We, therefore, consider the matter on the basis that the conclusions to be drawn from the DNA evidence are:

i) June Bamber's DNA was in the sound moderator at the time of the DNA examination;

ii) Sheila Caffell's DNA may have been in the sound moderator but it was not possible to conclude one way or the other whether it was; and

iii) there was evidence of DNA from at least one male.

[Holly Goodhead]

Just to simplify matters.

Let us look at what we know about the Anschutz rifle and more importantly the sound moderator.

• the rifle was used to control vermin on the farm
• the blood recovered from the sound moderator was human and had been contributed by three different people (two females and one male)
• it was not possible to 'plant' blood in the position inside the moderator where it was found

Given that the weapon used to murder the family in White House Farm was the Anschutz I think a reasonable deduction can be arrived at from the information I've posted above.

I forgot to answer the last point!

It would be reasonable to expect to see a diagram or photographic evidence about exactly where the blood supposedly found inside the silencer was actually found but I haven't seen evidence of either.  I've seen it mentioned a diagram existed but I haven't see one.  At trial Malcom Fletcher, who was responsible for unassembling the silencer was unsure about exactly where it was found.  Same for the biologist John Hayward.

The silencer is easily unassembled:

https://youtu.be/V7SFWHLi9cc

[Holly Goodhead]

I forgot to answer the last point!

It would be reasonable to expect to see a diagram or photographic evidence about exactly where the blood supposedly found inside the silencer was actually found but I haven't seen evidence of either.  I've seen it mentioned a diagram existed but I haven't see one.  At trial Malcom Fletcher, who was responsible for unassembling the silencer was unsure about exactly where it was found.  Same for the biologist John Hayward.

The silencer is easily unassembled:

https://youtu.be/V7SFWHLi9cc

Eg photographic evidence exists for the blood stains on the bible and diagrams exist for the blood stained rifle and debris on the outside of the silencer.