Re-evaluation of the blood and silencer evidence

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Bamber wrote to Mike Tesko about the rifle and silencer being photographed in the gun cupboard Holly - page 4 here https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=229.0

quote author=Nicholas link=topic=11431.msg590188#msg590188 date=1589383165]
Bamber wrote to Mike Tesko about the rifle and silencer being photographed in the gun cupboard Holly - page 4 here https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=229.0
[/quote]


It’s obvious that the police were actually being fair to Jeremy.

They took the rifle back to WHF (you can see the police label exhibit attached) and with the silencer attached they placed it in the cupboard to see it it would fit. And it did. And they took photographs as PROOF.

Slightly off topic, but HB does bang on to MT about not getting psychics involved. Many people mock them, but even the police themselves have sometimes used them. So why was JB panicking so much about MT using one? If some people thought it was stupid how could it have harmed his appeal? If anything, it could have gone in his favour if he was seen to be so desperate to clear his name he’d try absolutely anything at all.

I wonder if JB was lying to Mike Tesko...maybe JB DOES think some psychics can speak to the dead? Maybe he was scared that the psychic would tell MT that she got messages from the family and they said Jeremy had killed them? He wrote about five pages insisting MT shouldn’t use a psychic, and I don’t believe he was worried that people would laugh at them seeking a psychics help, when the police themselves have used them.

Another abnormal thing in his letters to MT was how he referred to his mum, dad, sister and nephews as “the deceased”. Who calls their lost loved ones “deceased”...?😖

[Vertigo Swirl]

It may or may not have been blood;

487. The evidence reveals that the form of DNA testing carried out was Low Copy Number (LCN) DNA profiling. This form of DNA profiling is designated to increase the sensitivity of earlier types of DNA profiling so that, in theory, only a few cells are required for successful analysis. As a result mixed DNA profiles, (i.e. profiles containing DNA originating from more than one individual) can be anticipated. LCN DNA profiling tests do not provide any information about the type of body fluid tested or when it was deposited on the item.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

OK, let me re-phrase that.  What was June’s body fluid doing inside the silencer?

[Vertigo Swirl]

I don't believe blood was ever in the silencer.  Its a massive hoax.

Perpetrated by whom?  How many individuals are involved in the hoax and why?

[G-Unit]

This must surely be familiar to those who have looked at the case of MM.

Yes indeed. That's why I referred to markers rather than bands because that was what the FSS spoke about in that case. All the samples in that case were mixed and they couldn't say how many people contributed to the mix or draw any meaningful conclusions about whose DNA was in the mix. Five years after the Bamber case the FSS were much less sure about mixed samples.

[Caroline]

OK, let me re-phrase that.  What was June’s body fluid doing inside the silencer?

They put it down to contamination.

[Vertigo Swirl]

They put it down to contamination.

Deliberate contamination if Holly’s earlier comment is anything to go by...

[Caroline]

Deliberate contamination if Holly’s earlier comment is anything to go by...

It's unlikely to have been deliberate. They weren't as careful back then as they are now because they weren't concerned about DNA. It only took someone who had handled something with June's DNA on it and then touched the silencer or inspected the silencer in an area that previously had an item from June on it and June's DNA ends up contaminating it.

[Vertigo Swirl]

It's unlikely to have been deliberate. They weren't as careful back then as they are now because they weren't concerned about DNA. It only took someone who had handled something with June's DNA on it and then touched the silencer or inspected the silencer in an area that previously had an item from June on it and June's DNA ends up contaminating it.

I thought the “body fluids” were found deep inside the silencer with indications of “back spatter” which is not conducive with the scenario you paint above, imo.

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly says it’s all a hoax 😌

There was NO blood in the baffles. No back spatter. No dried flake of blood. No red paint matching the mantel.

It was all a figment of the forensic scientists imagination,

Perhaps you can explain the following then:

- The drawback phenemenon is not usually observed with. 22 rifles and low velocity ammo.

- A silencer makes it less likely still.

- When it is observed it usually involves contact gunshot wounds to the head

- When it is observed it usually includes tissue with the blood

- No comparable cases in criminal history where blood inside a silencer underpins a conviction.

- None of the forensic literature, research, tests include drawback with a silencer

- No tests/modelling have been undertaken to establish whether the drawback phenemenon is possible with the rifle, ammo and silencer.

- The blood flake inside the silencer was the only blood stained exhibit capable of yielding the results claimed.

- The non-porous blood stained rifle was unable to yield any results beyond human in origin

- Blood analysed by serology requires good quality samples of a certain quantity.  Heat and humidity are known to degrade samples rendering them useless for serological analysis. The blood flake had to withstand heat from firearm discharge, humidity in the cyanoacrylate fuming chamber and gunshot residue.

- Victims' blood samples were analysed for:
   -  Antigens - ABO
   -  Haptoglobin - HP -  Protein
   -  Phosphoglucomutase - PGM -  Enzyme
   -  Adenylate Kinase - AK - Enzyme
   -  Erythrocyte Acid Phosphatase - EAP - Enzyme
The samples yielded results for all the above.

The blood flake in the silencer was analysed but unable to yield a result for the enzyme PGM. At trial John Hayward told the court PGM is less stable than AK and EAP. This contradicts advice. I was given by the Chief Forensic Serologist at the Serological Research Institute in California that PGM is more stable than AK and EAP which begs the question how/why in this case the flake was unable to yield a result for PGM?  This is currently being reviewed by a forensic scientist in private practice along with other 'evidence'.

[Nicholas]

  This is currently being reviewed by a forensic scientist in private practice along with other 'evidence'.

Won’t make any difference Holly - Bamber’s murder convictions won’t be overturned

[Nicholas]

the flake was unable to yield a result for PGM?  This is currently being reviewed by a forensic scientist in private practice along with other 'evidence'.

Wasn’t the flake tested to destruction

What exactly is this person reviewing

[Holly Goodhead]

Yes indeed. That's why I referred to markers rather than bands because that was what the FSS spoke about in that case. All the samples in that case were mixed and they couldn't say how many people contributed to the mix or draw any meaningful conclusions about whose DNA was in the mix. Five years after the Bamber case the FSS were much less sure about mixed samples.

Both markers and bands are relevant terms

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg589877#msg589877

Re this aspect of the case (plse refer to coa doc) the court was referring to bands which are the end result of the tests.  I gave an example of how the tests work using gel electrophoresis and present as bands:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg589873#msg589873

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gel_electrophoresis

[Nicholas]

Both markers and bands are relevant terms

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg589877#msg589877

Re this aspect of the case (plse refer to coa doc) the court was referring to bands which are the end result of the tests.  I gave an example of how the tests work using gel electrophoresis and present as bands:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg589873#msg589873

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gel_electrophoresis

Makes no difference what you did Holly

Where I've placed ? I've been unable to decipher the word.

Jeremy Bamber A5352AC
HM Wakefield WF29AG

Dear xxxx - Sorry about the moths.  Please have xxxxxxx/xxx contact xxxxx on my web site.  Anyway I've done a huge piece of work on bullets and bullet cases.  Those charts you sent are actual case ones (main bedroom) but they were not actually true - the police made them up.  DC Hammersley the DRH acronym was not at the scene ? morning on 07.08.85.  The 4th soc officer is DC Henderson.  He collected all the exhibits, dad was not shot or wounded upstairs ? all.  Sheila's feet ? blood stained photos not disclosed til 2011.  The finger print stuff - there ? around 300 photos of prints taken from the bible, we want those photos examined. Thanks always.  Jeremy.

Just as it’ll make no difference if the photos of the bible are examined

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Wasn’t the flake tested to destruction

What exactly is this person reviewing

Holly previously said the flake never existed in the first place

[Nicholas]

Holly previously said the flake never existed in the first place

Suspect Bamber’s ‘methodology’ has rubbed off on her