Re-evaluation of the blood and silencer evidence

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Your post demonstrates perfectly why cites should be provided. You appear to expect member's to believe what you say even though the official evidence contradicts you.

Ground 15 is the sole ground upon which this case was referred to the Court by the CCRC. It is based upon the testing of the sound moderator for DNA, a technique that was not available at trial.
[Point 452 Grounds 14 and 15]
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

That’s why in 1985 forensics were only able to discover 13 of Sheila’s blood markers in the dried flake found on the eighth baffle; but by 2002, when forensics had advanced, they were able to prove that SEVENTEEN markers of Sheilas blood was in that same sample.

Incidentally, and no, I don’t have a cite for this but you’re free to Google it, if 13 markers are found in a blood sample it shows that the likelihood of it belonging to a certain person is extremely high (I’ll need to find the number, but it’s huge).

But finding SEVENTEEN markers — as they did in 2002 — proved that the blood was Sheila’s. It said somewhere in the documents that it was a “trillion to one” that is was NOT Sheila’s.

When I have time to browse/search and am not distracted by interruptions I shall find the evidence for you, but there’s nothing stopping you searching yourself...just try Google or look through the OFFICIAL court documents. If you’re looking at what JB’s campaign team are putting up, that explains why you’re confused.

They lie and distort.

[Nicholas]

That’s why in 1985 forensics were only able to discover 13 of Sheila’s blood markers in the dried flake found on the eighth baffle; but by 2002, when forensics had advanced, they were able to prove that SEVENTEEN markers of Sheilas blood was in that same sample.

Incidentally, and no, I don’t have a cite for this but you’re free to Google it, if 13 markers are found in a blood sample it shows that the likelihood of it belonging to a certain person is extremely high (I’ll need to find the number, but it’s huge).

But finding SEVENTEEN markers — as they did in 2002 — proved that the blood was Sheila’s. It said somewhere in the documents that it was a “trillion to one” that is was NOT Sheila’s.

When I have time to browse/search and am not distracted by interruptions I shall find the evidence for you, but there’s nothing stopping you searching yourself...just try Google or look through the OFFICIAL court documents. If you’re looking at what JB’s campaign team are putting up, that explains why you’re confused.

They lie and distort.

Because they were either deluded or have become deluded

Trudi Benjamin appears to have been deluded to begin with

She publicly claimed here http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru

“When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent, although I probably wasn’t exactly sure why (sic)

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Yes and I wondered until recently whether the other sources related to SC's birth father but I read recently CC was asked to handover the twin's milk teeth which I assume was for this purpose.

I wonder why the police didn't track down SC's birth father assuming CJ knew his identity.  Maybe they did track him down and he was found deceased/cremated.

I think DNA can be extracted from burial sites whether buried or cremated.  But as the scientists were concerned with attempting whose DNA was in the silencer from a finite pool ie NB, June and SC maybe they were happy to use what they had and hedge it around statistics eg:

Because the blood sample of June Bamber no longer exists, it has not been possible to do a direct comparison between her DNA and that of the major component. However, it has been possible to obtain a sample from June Bamber's sister, Pamela Boutflour, which because closely related relatives are statistically more likely to have shared components than unrelated individuals, has enabled conclusions to be drawn. That evidence shows that it is about 3,500 times more likely that the major source of DNA was from a full sister of Pamela Boutflour, i.e. June Bamber, compared to it being from an unrelated female.

DNA cannot be found in cremated remains.

Ashes are basically little chips of carbon; during combustion the entirety of its organic system and data is totally destroyed.

Everything’s gone — forever.

Colin Caffell wasn’t “asked” to hand over his sons milk teeth — he was forced to when Jeremy Bamber was trying another of his ruses to wriggle out of jail.

Sheila’s Mother is still alive now, and they already had her DNA, so the police and forensics had ample evidence to go on.

In all honesty, this has all been gone over decades ago...forensics proved the blood was Sheila’s, and nothing can alter that fact.

Besides, all the other incriminating compelling evidence proved beyond doubt that Jeremy Bamber murdered all his family...why can’t some people accept that?

[Vertigo Swirl]

LCN DNA can produce a DNA profile from cellular material as small as 1/1,000,000 the size of a grain of salt.  When exhibits were handled by police, scientists, jurors and others in 1985/6 no safeguards were in place to protect against contamination as DNA evidence was not in use then:

487. The evidence reveals that the form of DNA testing carried out was Low Copy Number (LCN) DNA profiling. This form of DNA profiling is designated to increase the sensitivity of earlier types of DNA profiling so that, in theory, only a few cells are required for successful analysis. As a result mixed DNA profiles, (i.e. profiles containing DNA originating from more than one individual) can be anticipated. LCN DNA profiling tests do not provide any information about the type of body fluid tested or when it was deposited on the item. Because of the sensitivity of the test, the possibility of contamination must be taken into account. Rigorous procedures have been drawn up to eliminate so far as possible any contamination in the gathering and examination of items from crime scenes. Because DNA testing was not available at the time of these killings (let alone LCN DNA testing) such procedures were not in place at the time when these items were gathered and first tested. In addition, at the trial no precautions would have been considered necessary to protect the integrity of the exhibits because it was not then anticipated that further testing would take place.

My question was “ What items containing June’s blood were physically handled by the jurors?  When was this blood flake examined?  Pre or post trial?”
Do you know?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Because they were either deluded or have become deluded

Trudi Benjamin appears to have been deluded to begin with

She publicly claimed here http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru

“When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent, although I probably wasn’t exactly sure why (sic)

I don’t know Trudi’s true reasons for her obsession with Jeremy Bamber, but I do know that if I was her husband I’d be extremely alarmed.

Perhaps she can’t see it, but she appears spellbound by him, and the fact her husband doesn’t seem bothered about her obsession suggests he doesn’t care. So I suspect her marriage is lacking in some way...

I think Trudi fits many of the characteristics of all the women who are attracted to prisoners: just watching her speak on YouTube gives an insight to her psyche...she doesn’t come across self-assured and appears to lack self-esteem. I think she’s living in a fantasy world, like all of these prisoner groupies do.

Take a read of this, it gives a good insight to the women who do this and it’s actually sad in my opinion

Oh, and they ALL claim the prisoner is either innocent, or he’s now “changed”

https://www.longdom.org/open-access/women-attracted-to-incarcerated-men-a-case-study-2573-4598-1000139.pdf

[Brietta]

That’s why in 1985 forensics were only able to discover 13 of Sheila’s blood markers in the dried flake found on the eighth baffle; but by 2002, when forensics had advanced, they were able to prove that SEVENTEEN markers of Sheilas blood was in that same sample.

Incidentally, and no, I don’t have a cite for this but you’re free to Google it, if 13 markers are found in a blood sample it shows that the likelihood of it belonging to a certain person is extremely high (I’ll need to find the number, but it’s huge).

But finding SEVENTEEN markers — as they did in 2002 — proved that the blood was Sheila’s. It said somewhere in the documents that it was a “trillion to one” that is was NOT Sheila’s.

When I have time to browse/search and am not distracted by interruptions I shall find the evidence for you, but there’s nothing stopping you searching yourself...just try Google or look through the OFFICIAL court documents. If you’re looking at what JB’s campaign team are putting up, that explains why you’re confused.

They lie and distort.

There's loads of information about it on the internet;  I found a good site when this conversation began but I can't remember which one and I'm not trawling through my history to find it.

I think there is relevant information here ...

Snip
Since the FBI's National DNA Index System, or NDIS, came online in 1998, forensic labs in the United States have been generating profiles by analyzing a specific set of 13 genetic markers.

Starting January 1, 2017, that number will rise to 20, an advance made possible by close collaboration between scientists at the FBI and the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). The additional markers will vastly increase the statistical certainty of DNA identifications and allow investigators to identify suspects that could slip through the cracks today.
________________________________________________________________________

"But if you start with 20 markers, seven can drop out and you'll still have what's considered a full profile today," Coble said.
https://phys.org/news/2016-12-fbi-dna-profiles-powerful-cases.html
 

[Nicholas]

I don’t know Trudi’s true reasons for her obsession with Jeremy Bamber, but I do know that if I was her husband I’d be extremely alarmed.

Perhaps she can’t see it, but she appears spellbound by him, and the fact her husband doesn’t seem bothered about her obsession suggests he doesn’t care. So I suspect her marriage is lacking in some way...

I think Trudi fits many of the characteristics of all the women who are attracted to prisoners: just watching her speak on YouTube gives an insight to her psyche...she doesn’t come across self-assured and appears to lack self-esteem. I think she’s living in a fantasy world, like all of these prisoner groupies do.

Take a read of this, it gives a good insight to the women who do this and it’s actually sad in my opinion

Oh, and they ALL claim the prisoner is either innocent, or he’s now “changed”

https://www.longdom.org/open-access/women-attracted-to-incarcerated-men-a-case-study-2573-4598-1000139.pdf

Interesting article 

The abstract reads:

’This is a case study of a woman with a psychiatric diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder who, when widowed, started a pen pal correspondence with a man in prison. She subsequently invited him to live with her upon his release. The situation ended badly.

Do any of Bamber’s supporters have a borderline personality disorder (BDP) ?
 

[Nicholas]

https://www.longdom.org/open-access/women-attracted-to-incarcerated-men-a-case-study-2573-4598-1000139.pdf

 Usual outcomes
’Although accurate numbers are not available, the outcomes for women who get involved with prisoners, during peace time, are overwhelmingly poor. The women suffer abuse and interpersonal trauma, which frequently lead to depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation and self-harm. Life with an ex-prisoner can engender fear, despair, feelings of worthlessness and self-contempt [18].

When Chloe brought Todd home to her low rental apartment, she either did not know or did not tell her mental health team why he had been in prison. She said it was “something minor.” Chloe received a government disability pension on the basis of her Borderline Disorder, which she began to share with Todd. He was unable to work for unspecified reasons. He drank and she drank with him. She came to her mental health appointments with black and blue marks saying that she had fallen down the stairs while drunk. This could have been true, but the consensus among her mental health team was that Todd was abusing her. She never admitted to this. During the months that he lived with her, Chloe signed herself into hospital on several occasions, feeling suicidal. On the last occasion, she stayed two weeks and was discharged against medical advice. Three days later she jumped to her death from the roof of her building.

[Nicholas]

I don’t know Trudi’s true reasons for her obsession with Jeremy Bamber, but I do know that if I was her husband I’d be extremely alarmed.https://www.longdom.org/open-access/women-attracted-to-incarcerated-men-a-case-study-2573-4598-1000139.pdf

Maybe he sees the whole thing as a business opportunity ?

Trudi’s husband Pat is a director of JB Campaign ltd

“I am very proud, alongside my husband Pat Benjamin, to be a Director of the organisation, and we are delighted to be working with the Campaign Management Team to maintain a high standard of business and accounting practices. In accordance, with requirements by Companies House, all monies will be accounted for and annual accounts will be filed. The Directors and Management Team give their time and expertise for free.
The decision to generate revenue in this way was taken partly because of the denigration of legal aid and the funding crisis for prisoners such as Jeremy but also because of the outrage we feel at the continued wrongful conviction and 31-year loss of liberty of an innocent man. Our hope is that campaigners and supporters, who feel as we do, will give generously to help Jeremy gain the freedom he so richly deserves.
Please look at the “Management Team” to find out more about who we are and the 'Operations' page to find out how we work.
Thank you.
Trudi Benjamin
Managing Director/Spokesperson
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/jb-campaign-ltd-and-directors

[Holly Goodhead]

That’s why in 1985 forensics were only able to discover 13 of Sheila’s blood markers in the dried flake found on the eighth baffle; but by 2002, when forensics had advanced, they were able to prove that SEVENTEEN markers of Sheilas blood was in that same sample.

Incidentally, and no, I don’t have a cite for this but you’re free to Google it, if 13 markers are found in a blood sample it shows that the likelihood of it belonging to a certain person is extremely high (I’ll need to find the number, but it’s huge).

But finding SEVENTEEN markers — as they did in 2002 — proved that the blood was Sheila’s. It said somewhere in the documents that it was a “trillion to one” that is was NOT Sheila’s.

When I have time to browse/search and am not distracted by interruptions I shall find the evidence for you, but there’s nothing stopping you searching yourself...just try Google or look through the OFFICIAL court documents. If you’re looking at what JB’s campaign team are putting up, that explains why you’re confused.

They lie and distort.

You have been provided with cites numerous times showing the blood flake found inside the silencer in 1985 was analysed by way of blood serology:  Antigens (ABO), enzymes (AK, EAP, PGM) protein (HP).   Nothing to do with markers.

In 2002 the scientists found 17 of the 20 BANDS (not markers which are quite different) attributable to SC had been detected in DNA from the internal swabbings.  Random chance would have suggested 13 BANDS.

The scientists and court concluded

ii) Sheila Caffell's DNA may have been in the sound moderator but it was not possible to conclude one way or the other whether it was.

[Holly Goodhead]

DNA markers and bands are completely different:

A genetic marker is a gene or DNA sequence with a known location on a chromosome that can be used to identify individuals or species.

Electrophoresis a process which enables the sorting of molecules based on size. Using an electric field, molecules (such as DNA) can be made to move through a gel made of agarose or polyacrylamide. The electric field consists of a negative charge at one end which pushes the molecules through the gel, and a positive charge at the other end that pulls the molecules through the gel. The molecules being sorted are dispensed into a well in the gel material. The gel is placed in an electrophoresis chamber, which is then connected to a power source. When the electric current is applied, the larger molecules move more slowly through the gel while the smaller molecules move faster. The different sized molecules form distinct bands on the gel.

[G-Unit]

That’s why in 1985 forensics were only able to discover 13 of Sheila’s blood markers in the dried flake found on the eighth baffle; but by 2002, when forensics had advanced, they were able to prove that SEVENTEEN markers of Sheilas blood was in that same sample.

Incidentally, and no, I don’t have a cite for this but you’re free to Google it, if 13 markers are found in a blood sample it shows that the likelihood of it belonging to a certain person is extremely high (I’ll need to find the number, but it’s huge).

But finding SEVENTEEN markers — as they did in 2002 — proved that the blood was Sheila’s. It said somewhere in the documents that it was a “trillion to one” that is was NOT Sheila’s.

When I have time to browse/search and am not distracted by interruptions I shall find the evidence for you, but there’s nothing stopping you searching yourself...just try Google or look through the OFFICIAL court documents. If you’re looking at what JB’s campaign team are putting up, that explains why you’re confused.

They lie and distort.

I don't believe you mean to lie, so I can only assume you either haven't read or can't understand what was done and when. Please stop posting misinformation.

497. We, therefore, consider the matter on the basis that the conclusions to be drawn from the DNA evidence are:                        
                        
i) June Bamber's DNA was in the sound moderator at the time of the DNA examination;                        
                        
ii) Sheila Caffell's DNA may have been in the sound moderator but it was not possible to conclude one way or the other whether it was; and                        
                        
iii) there was evidence of DNA from at least one male.                        
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html                        

[ISpyWithMyEye]

There's loads of information about it on the internet;  I found a good site when this conversation began but I can't remember which one and I'm not trawling through my history to find it.

I think there is relevant information here ...

Snip
Since the FBI's National DNA Index System, or NDIS, came online in 1998, forensic labs in the United States have been generating profiles by analyzing a specific set of 13 genetic markers.

Starting January 1, 2017, that number will rise to 20, an advance made possible by close collaboration between scientists at the FBI and the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). The additional markers will vastly increase the statistical certainty of DNA identifications and allow investigators to identify suspects that could slip through the cracks today.
________________________________________________________________________

"But if you start with 20 markers, seven can drop out and you'll still have what's considered a full profile today," Coble said.
https://phys.org/news/2016-12-fbi-dna-profiles-powerful-cases.html

Thank you for posting that, Brietta !

I appreciate that 😊

[Holly Goodhead]

The whole proposition of how a blood flake came to be trapped under the first/second baffle plate is based on the drawback phenemenon.

The following was referred to at trial:

Abstract

It is well known that gunshot wounding can produce fine droplets of blood spattered in a forward direction. Under certain circumstances blood droplets can also be propelled backwards in a direction against the line of fire. Although the phenomenon of back spatter of blood is most commonly seen in contact gunshot wounds of the head, its occurrence is not well recognized. In this article we summarize investigative and experimental observations concerning back spatter. We suggest that back spatter is a type of “blow-back” effect produced by discharge of a large volume of gas in a confined space.

https://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS11526J.htm

The above does not take into account a silencer which totally changes the proposition since the hot discharge gases do not enter into the wound at the exact same time as the bullet but release slowly after the bullet has entered the wound:


[attachment deleted by admin]

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Interesting article 

The abstract reads:

’This is a case study of a woman with a psychiatric diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder who, when widowed, started a pen pal correspondence with a man in prison. She subsequently invited him to live with her upon his release. The situation ended badly.

Do any of Bamber’s supporters have a borderline personality disorder (BDP) ?

I don’t know if any of his supporters have a BPD, but the ones I’ve seen post on Twitter become quickly enraged if you disagree with them, which is somewhat “emotional”, I guess...

Oh, and they block you immediately, but that’s because they refuse to hear. They’d rather be DEAF.

I don’t think it’s in the link I put up, but one woman who began writing to a prisoner in America, and insisted he was innocent, eventually had him move in with her when he managed to get released.

That didn’t end well, either.

Just a few weeks later he sliced off one of her ears and pulled some of her teeth out with pliers...