Did Jeremy Bamber Have An Affair With Charles Marsden?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Looking back on these decade old documents it's interesting to see how some police officers and the likes of RWB were anti gay.  I'm sure most who were anti were just that but maybe some were conflicted and JB aroused uncomfortable thoughts.

There appears to have been an unhealthy interest preoccupation with JB's sexuality.

JM was asked about their sex life which she described as 'normal'!

I think there were many anti-gay people around in the 1980s, which sadly meant many people tried to hide their sexuality. It’s of no relevance which gender he liked to have sex with: the relevance is — and from what Julie states in her WS’s — he was being deceptive, unfaithful, promiscuous  — and wasn’t being honest with her. Remember, that was bang at the time of the onset of AIDS, which mainly affected gay people, so Jeremy was putting Julie — and everyone else he had sex with — at danger. Thankfully, they both dodged that bullet, but nonetheless he was taking a huge risk...

It’s clear going by Julie’s statements that he was cheating on her and having sex with others behind her back, and he was hiding it from her, being deceptive.

Julie saying that their sex life was normal sounds like it was — but she would have been referring to their own sex life as a couple.

[Nicholas]

I think there were many anti-gay people around in the 1980s, which sadly meant many people tried to hide their sexuality. It’s of no relevance which gender he liked to have sex with: the relevance is — and from what Julie states in her WS’s — he was being deceptive, unfaithful, promiscuous  — and wasn’t being honest with her. Remember, that was bang at the time of the onset of AIDS, which mainly affected gay people, so Jeremy was putting Julie — and everyone else he had sex with — at danger. Thankfully, they both dodged that bullet, but nonetheless he was taking a huge risk...

It’s clear going by Julie’s statements that he was cheating on her and having sex with others behind her back, and he was hiding it from her, being deceptive.

Julie saying that their sex life was normal sounds like it was — but she would have been referring to their own sex life as a couple.

Two of the women he slept with behind JM’s back were her friends Sarah and Liz. Wouldn’t this suggest he manipulated them both & in Sarah’s case - possibly drugged her ?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

So maybe this is what April was referring to when she mentioned ‘threesomes‘ ?

When did this happen ?

I don’t know exactly when that threesome took place, but it was when he was seeing Julie

He was having sex with other people behind her back, and they’re just the ones that came to light. Several people have said how he used to have casual sex/one-night stands when Julie was in Lewisham, so whether they were Male, female or threesomes he was cheating on her

[Caroline]

Two of the women he slept with behind JM’s back were her friends Sarah and Liz. Wouldn’t this suggest he manipulated them both & in Sarah’s case - possibly drugged her ?

I wonder when this was - before or after Julie left her sleeping pills there?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

JM”s witness statement
“When Jeremy returned from the farm that lunchtime I asked him why he lied to me and he told me and he told me he had not and that Sarah was neurotic and fancied him and wanted to sleep with him”

Terrible liar isn’t he — and he has a pattern

He didn’t do it

It was her

She’s neurotic/nuts/mad

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Another ‘red flag’

‘Why You Should Be Wary of Someone Who Calls Their Ex “Crazy”“In many cases, it’s a warning sign when someone calls their ex "crazy." In some relationships, one partner ends up acting “crazy” because, as a pattern, they have been lied to, controlled, cheated on, or manipulated. Such experiences can cause so much distress and anxiety that the individual becomes overly emotional, stuck in a fight-or-flight response given their intuition that the relationship isn’t emotionally safe. In many cases, it can be the one calling the other “crazy” who is actually fairly disordered.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-is-2020/201911/why-you-should-be-wary-someone-who-calls-their-ex-crazy

Oh, that’s absolutely spot on, Nicholas!

Controlling men ALWAYS tell others his wife/girlfriend is mad — they’re so transparent

I’ve noticed how men like that call women neurotic if she isn’t happy being punched in the face by him...

You seldom hear women calling men neurotic...I wonder why?

[Nicholas]

Oh, that’s absolutely spot on, Nicholas!

Wondered if Aunt Agatha could relate to this around the time the CT came along?

“In some relationships, one partner ends up acting “crazy” because, as a pattern, they have been lied to, controlled, cheated on, or manipulated. Such experiences can cause so much distress and anxiety that the individual becomes overly emotional, stuck in a fight-or-flight response given their intuition that the relationship isn’t emotionally safe.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-is-2020/201911/why-you-should-be-wary-someone-who-calls-their-ex-crazy

Recall her posting that she was ‘relieved’ when things ended ?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

According to CAL

‘In addition to the odd dalliance with Sue Ford, Jeremy was unfaithful to Julie in the first half of 1984 with two other women. The first was Liz Rimmimgton, whose relationship with Malcolm Waters had come to an end. After spending the night with Jeremy, Liz felt ‘terribly guilty’, telling Essex police in 1985 that they were never ‘romantically involved’ and Julie knew nothing about it.

Jeremy’s second liaison was with another friend of Julie’s. He and Charles Marsden had spent an evening drinking with the girl at the Chequers. Returning to Bourtree cottage after the pub closed, Charles went to bed while Jeremy and the girl stayed downstairs drinking. She told detectives in 1985 that she had suddenly found herself in Jeremy’s bedroom with him, ‘on top of me having intercourse’. Charles Marsden lay next to them; he recalled waking up to find the couple having sex but both he and the girl confirmed he had taken no part in what was going on.

The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged. Feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’ after hearing that Jeremy had told Julie about the episode, she called at the cottage while Jeremy was working. Julie recalled the girl describing a threesome and, when she confronted Jeremy, he told her that the girl was neurotic. Leaving Julie sobbing in the garden, he returned later and charged at the locked door, splintering it. Julie decided to believe him and broke off her friendship with the girl as he asked.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=charles+marsden+essex&source=bl&ots=jQISI3Diw_&sig=ACfU3U1i336DTUwUTlMThBe2M3Xntg_NJA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil_JK6psXpAhW-QhUIHRPOAwkQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=charles%20marsden%20essex&f=false

Wasn’t he partial to taking Valium with alcohol to get spaced-out?  I wonder if he somehow slipped her a couple to half knock her out? It seems strange she can’t remember hiw she ended up in his bed?😳

And isn’t there something tacky about having sex in a bed while your friend is laying next to you? Why didn’t Charles sleep in the other bedroom...sound so sordid

[Nicholas]

According to CAL

‘In addition to the odd dalliance with Sue Ford, Jeremy was unfaithful to Julie in the first half of 1984 with two other women. The first was Liz Rimmimgton, whose relationship with Malcolm Waters had come to an end. After spending the night with Jeremy, Liz felt ‘terribly guilty’, telling Essex police in 1985 that they were never ‘romantically involved’ and Julie knew nothing about it.

Jeremy’s second liaison was with another friend of Julie’s. He and Charles Marsden had spent an evening drinking with the girl at the Chequers. Returning to Bourtree cottage after the pub closed, Charles went to bed while Jeremy and the girl stayed downstairs drinking. She told detectives in 1985 that she had suddenly found herself in Jeremy’s bedroom with him, ‘on top of me having intercourse’. Charles Marsden lay next to them; he recalled waking up to find the couple having sex but both he and the girl confirmed he had taken no part in what was going on.

The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged. Feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’ after hearing that Jeremy had told Julie about the episode, she called at the cottage while Jeremy was working. Julie recalled the girl describing a threesome and, when she confronted Jeremy, he told her that the girl was neurotic. Leaving Julie sobbing in the garden, he returned later and charged at the locked door, splintering it. Julie decided to believe him and broke off her friendship with the girl as he asked.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=charles+marsden+essex&source=bl&ots=jQISI3Diw_&sig=ACfU3U1i336DTUwUTlMThBe2M3Xntg_NJA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil_JK6psXpAhW-QhUIHRPOAwkQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=charles%20marsden%20essex&f=false

Wasn’t he partial to taking Valium with alcohol to get spaced-out?  I wonder if he somehow slipped her a couple to half knock her out? It seems strange she can’t remember hiw she ended up in his bed?😳

And isn’t there something tacky about having sex in a bed while your friend is laying next to you? Why didn’t Charles sleep in the other bedroom...sound so sordid

Would like to read Charles Marsden’s and Sarah’s witness statement - something’s not adding up

[Nicholas]

Wasn’t he partial to taking Valium with alcohol to get spaced-out?  I wonder if he somehow slipped her a couple to half knock her out? It seems strange she can’t remember hiw she ended up in his bed?😳

And isn’t there something tacky about having sex in a bed while your friend is laying next to you? Why didn’t Charles sleep in the other bedroom...sound so sordid

I recall reading somewhere where it’s said Bamber tossed away some drugs ?

Do you believe he’d do that - I don’t

Didn’t they originally belong to JM or someone or other ?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Bamber doesn’t appear to have been committed to JM, especially if he was cheating on her since they met (End of Dec 1983) and with so called friends of hers

He certainly didn’t seem to be head over heels in love with her, did he?

Everyone knows that when you fall in love you aren’t even attracted to anyone else — you’re in that passionate “honeymoon” phase which usually lasts about three years, and then the “lovesick butterflies” subside and you settle down (or break up, depending)

[Nicholas]

He certainly didn’t seem to be head over heels in love with her, did he?

Everyone knows that when you fall in love you aren’t even attracted to anyone else — you’re in that passionate “honeymoon” phase which usually lasts about three years, and then the “lovesick butterflies” subside and you settle down (or break up, depending)

According to Rick Fulks

‘Every relationship goes through dating stages. There are five to be exact.

Stage One: Attraction and Romance
All couples experience this phase. It occurs when you are beginning to get to know each other; it's a main dating step to go through. It might also be called the fantasy phase or honeymoon stage because your partner can seem perfect during this time. How long this phase lasts varies, but it can be anywhere from a few months to about two years. On average, phase one lasts about three months. This stage is a lot of fun but is not sustainable. People who are constantly changing partners are often trying to remain in this stage. Highlights of this stage of love include:

Focusing on your similarities and ignoring flaws - Biological forces take over causing you to only see the good.
Spending a lot of time together - You are in love, after all, and you can't imagine being apart from your lover.
Conflict avoidance - Conflict is not only avoided in this stage but seems like it will never happen at all.

Stage Two: Reality Sets In
This stage often will begin to creep in slowly during your relationship, but will sometimes happen all at once. The reality phase typically lasts about six months, or as long as it takes for both of you to decide you want to stay together. This is often where relationships end because one person decides they've made a selection mistake. If you can accept each other's flaws, you can progress to the next level. In this stage of healthy relationships:

You start to see flaws in your partner or behaviors you just don't like. It's not that you are no longer in love, but your partner doesn't seem as great as he or she was in stage one.
Biology is fighting against you. The romance stage features many endorphins running through your body that gives you that "high" sensation. Your body can't keep this up forever, and so in this stage your elation begins to level off.
You wonder if you are still in love. The relationship doesn't seem like as much of a fantasy as before.

Stage Three: Disappointment
What began as reality setting in during stage two often turns to disappointment in stage three. Couples at this stage spend about a year working out their differences in an effort to get to a place of stability. If you're able to communicate in healthy ways and see positive progress, you're likely to move to the next phase. The problems presented here are:

As a couple you believe that arguments are bad, but you are angry at each other anyway.
Some of the anger can be over trivial things such as small differences between you.
Since you don't realize that conflict can be healthy, you wonder if this relationship is doomed. In fact, you likely have thoughts of breaking up or getting divorced.
Without strong communication, trust, and the ability to work as a team, couples are unlikely to advance past this stage.

Stage Four: Stability
If a couple can navigate through the unstable waters of stage three, they will find stage four offers much rest and enjoyment. Couples spend roughly two years feeling stable before progressing into the final stage of commitment. Make efforts to spice up your standard life together to keep the spark alive.

As a couple, you now have history together, and you have been able to work through some differences.
The fantasy of stage one is completely gone, but you have accepted this. Yes, you have differences and you sometimes fight, but you love your partner, feel connected to him or her, and you trust you can work through any future conflicts.
You may, however, feel a little bored at times as the chase is definitely over.
You may also miss the stage one feelings and wonder if those feelings can be found in someone else.

Stage Five: Commitment
Few couples make it this far, even couples who are married. In this stage, you are truly a team and have progressed through the five stages of love. If dating, this is the stage where you can get married and feel comfortable with that decision. It is a stage of mature and sustainable love that lasts forever in an ideal world for happy couples. Milestones include:

You have chosen to be with your partner, flaws and all.
You no longer miss the romance stage because that would mean being with a new person and you don't want that.
You have a vision for the future together as a couple.


https://dating.lovetoknow.com/Five_Stages_in_a_Relationship

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Did you ever read any of the letters Bamber sent to Mike Tesko ?

I suspect if you were to read through some of his old letters he sent to you you’ll find that he has.

In this letter http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=229.0 he refers to

‘Sponging cranks’

‘[moderated]s’

‘Odious criminals’

‘Fetid vultures’

There’s even a bit where he states,

‘Just be kind to this women and say that my deceased family have asked not to be disturbed through an email I received from mother Theresa who’s now best mates with my mum’

Did Mike Tesko tell the woman that, in his slow whispering Brando style voice?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Two of the women he slept with behind JM’s back were her friends Sarah and Liz. Wouldn’t this suggest he manipulated them both & in Sarah’s case - possibly drugged her ?

Talk about doing it on your own doorstep 😐

Sarah’s case sounds very dodgy to me...

[Nicholas]

Did Mike Tesko tell the woman that, in his slow whispering Brando style voice?

This one you mean https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mmCART1vcCo