Why was the window open ?

[Carana]

Yes, I believe so. With what looks like a button latch thing.

I believe that's why the fingerprints appear where they do then.  People will put their hand against a sliding window to move it usually - I think there's video of the PJ doing this from outside the apartment, just as an aside.  The other prints may have been too smudged to pick out.

If it were not locked and if it slid easily, then it would be possible.

The window seems to slide from the right to the left. Wouldn't the right hand be more convenient to slide it? Wouldn't those prints have smudged?


I don't see anything to indicate that she hadn't simply placed her left hand on the window whilst poking her head out.

[C.Edwards]

Yes, I believe so. With what looks like a button latch thing.

I believe that's why the fingerprints appear where they do then.  People will put their hand against a sliding window to move it usually - I think there's video of the PJ doing this from outside the apartment, just as an aside.  The other prints may have been too smudged to pick out.

If it were not locked and if it slid easily, then it would be possible.

The window seems to slide from the right to the left. Wouldn't the right hand be more convenient to slide it? Wouldn't those prints have smudged?


I don't see anything to indicate that she hadn't simply placed her left hand on the window whilst poking her head out.

She may have done, but she doesn't admit to having done this. Furthermore (from memory only) wasn't the bed in the way? Or a chair? Something making it difficult to do without leaving an indentation or mark or something?

Don't really remember now. My personal opinion is that it was staging, but others will believe otherwise.

[Angelo222]

None of this proves one iota that the window was open when Ms. Mccann entered the apartment.

Again, hers were the only identifiable fingerprints.

Well Amy Tierney says it was open but being another Irish catholic maybe she was in on the conspiracy too?  What??   

So was that before Ms. Mcann was in the apartment or afterwards  ?

Had you thought about that for a moment instead of posting such a response you would realise how stupid your post is.     There are only two scenarios, either the window was open or it was shut.

If the window was closed when Kate found Madeleine missing she would not have opened it and left it open for Tierney to find moments later.

If the window was open she left it open.

So lets see, Tierney found it open......have you worked it out yet??   

[C.Edwards]

If the window was closed when Kate found Madeleine missing she would not have opened it and left it open for Tierney to find moments later.

And the fact that Kate McCann *might* have opened the window herself in order to stage an abduction is beyond your grasp is it?  I'm not saying she did, but she could have done.  Or any of the other people in that apartment could have done.  There is no proof of anything, we simply do not know.

[gavdalf]

May I ask, how can you state that she wouldn't have opened it, I may have been inclined to open it and scream my childs name over and over if I believed she wasn't in the appt

[Carana]

None of this proves one iota that the window was open when Ms. Mccann entered the apartment.

Again, hers were the only identifiable fingerprints.

Well Amy Tierney says it was open but being another Irish catholic maybe she was in on the conspiracy too?  What??   

So was that before Ms. Mcann was in the apartment or afterwards  ?

Had you thought about that for a moment instead of posting such a response you would realise how stupid your post is.     There are only two scenarios, either the window was open or it was shut.

If the window was closed when Kate found Madeleine missing she would not have opened it and left it open for Tierney to find moments later.

If the window was open she left it open.

So lets see, Tierney found it open......have you worked it out yet??   

I don't understand your point, either.

[AnneGuedes]

There is not a single testimony on the files from any independent testimony stating that the window was opened. For me that was a failed attempt from the Mccs to induce the idea of an abduction.

Sorry wrong Luz.  Crèche worker Amy Tierney was one of the first to arrive in the apartment after the alarm was raised by Kate.  She says in her statement...

She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine's shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.

However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.



In relation to the crèche at the Club she added...

... if the guests wish so they can request services from the "Staff" who would look after the children from 19.30 to 23.30, however Madeleine's parents never did this although the service is free.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm

It's a bit late, John, but I only read this to-day. Among many other curious details in Amy Tierney's story, the shutters, if lifted (up to a certain point) from the outside, don't remain lifted without a support or without somebody, from the inside, getting them first down then up with the strap. So if Amy Tierney saw the shutters more open than on the SP's photo and without anything to support them, then they had been lifted from the inside.

[Angelo222]

Had you thought about that for a moment instead of posting such a response you would realise how stupid your post is.     There are only two scenarios, either the window was open or it was shut.

If the window was closed when Kate found Madeleine missing she would not have opened it and left it open for Tierney to find moments later.

If the window was open she left it open.

So lets see, Tierney found it open......have you worked it out yet??   

I don't understand your point, either.

What part don't you understand?   No mother is going to open a window and leave it open when there are two other young children sleeping in the room while she dashes off to the raise the alarm. 

Try thinking outside the box peeps.    

[C.Edwards]

What part don't you understand?   No mother is going to open a window and leave it open when there are two other young children sleeping in the room while she dashes off to the raise the alarm. 

Try thinking outside the box peeps.    

Yeah!  No mother is going to "lose" one child somehow then leave the other two unprotected in exactly the same place the first one allegedly went missing from whilst she runs off to raise the alarm!

Get real "peeps"!

[debunker]

What part don't you understand?   No mother is going to open a window and leave it open when there are two other young children sleeping in the room while she dashes off to the raise the alarm. 

Try thinking outside the box peeps.    

Yeah!  No mother is going to "lose" one child somehow then leave the other two unprotected in exactly the same place the first one allegedly went missing from whilst she runs off to raise the alarm!

Get real "peeps"!

You do have a problem with absolutes.

Some mothers might well do that.

[Angelo222]

Raising the shutter would not secure entry if the window was originally closed.  This woud tend to support the argument that the intruder entered the apartment by either the main door or the patio door.

Did you know that a maintenance man repaired one of the shutter pullcords in another bedroom just days before the abduction?   He needed the apartment key in order to do this repair.

[C.Edwards]

Raising the shutter would not secure entry if the window was originally closed.  This woud tend to support the argument that the intruder entered the apartment by either the main door or the patio door.

Did you know that a maintenance man repaired one of the shutter pullcords in another bedroom just days before the abduction?   He needed the apartment key in order to do this repair.

I think we all accept the possibility - even probability - of spare/duplicate keys.  Where I have an issue with this is that it wasn't discussed as a possibility early on.  I'm sure the police investigated the likelihood and it appears they never really entertained it as that significant based on the lack of coverage on the subject in official or semi-official sources.  It only seems to be treated as a real possibility on what could be classified as "pro" websites and it's easy to understand why.

It would have been very easy in the early days for any of the OC staff, the police, the T9 themselves to say, "there's a distinct possibility that someone with a spare key may have been involved" and yet it's just not mentioned... instead we have broken/jemmied shutters and/or patio doors.

Only once that all starts running out of steam - and as I've said before, fairly early in 2009 from memory - does it start to gather momentum as a "theory" to explain how the comings and goings could have been achieved.

[debunker]

Raising the shutter would not secure entry if the window was originally closed.  This woud tend to support the argument that the intruder entered the apartment by either the main door or the patio door.

Did you know that a maintenance man repaired one of the shutter pullcords in another bedroom just days before the abduction?   He needed the apartment key in order to do this repair.

I think we all accept the possibility - even probability - of spare/duplicate keys.  Where I have an issue with this is that it wasn't discussed as a possibility early on.  I'm sure the police investigated the likelihood and it appears they never really entertained it as that significant based on the lack of coverage on the subject in official or semi-official sources.  It only seems to be treated as a real possibility on what could be classified as "pro" websites and it's easy to understand why.

It would have been very easy in the early days for any of the OC staff, the police, the T9 themselves to say, "there's a distinct possibility that someone with a spare key may have been involved" and yet it's just not mentioned... instead we have broken/jemmied shutters and/or patio doors.

Only once that all starts running out of steam - and as I've said before, fairly early in 2009 from memory - does it start to gather momentum as a "theory" to explain how the comings and goings could have been achieved.

That which is not Impossible is Possible.

It remains possible (in fact probable) that rogue and lost keys existed.

[stephen25000]

Raising the shutter would not secure entry if the window was originally closed.  This woud tend to support the argument that the intruder entered the apartment by either the main door or the patio door.

Did you know that a maintenance man repaired one of the shutter pullcords in another bedroom just days before the abduction?   He needed the apartment key in order to do this repair.

I think we all accept the possibility - even probability - of spare/duplicate keys.  Where I have an issue with this is that it wasn't discussed as a possibility early on.  I'm sure the police investigated the likelihood and it appears they never really entertained it as that significant based on the lack of coverage on the subject in official or semi-official sources.  It only seems to be treated as a real possibility on what could be classified as "pro" websites and it's easy to understand why.

It would have been very easy in the early days for any of the OC staff, the police, the T9 themselves to say, "there's a distinct possibility that someone with a spare key may have been involved" and yet it's just not mentioned... instead we have broken/jemmied shutters and/or patio doors.

Only once that all starts running out of steam - and as I've said before, fairly early in 2009 from memory - does it start to gather momentum as a "theory" to explain how the comings and goings could have been achieved.

That which is not Impossible is Possible.

It remains possible (in fact probable) that rogue and lost keys existed.

It also remains possible, not impossible, Madeleine died in the apartment or outside it.

[debunker]

Raising the shutter would not secure entry if the window was originally closed.  This woud tend to support the argument that the intruder entered the apartment by either the main door or the patio door.

Did you know that a maintenance man repaired one of the shutter pullcords in another bedroom just days before the abduction?   He needed the apartment key in order to do this repair.

I think we all accept the possibility - even probability - of spare/duplicate keys.  Where I have an issue with this is that it wasn't discussed as a possibility early on.  I'm sure the police investigated the likelihood and it appears they never really entertained it as that significant based on the lack of coverage on the subject in official or semi-official sources.  It only seems to be treated as a real possibility on what could be classified as "pro" websites and it's easy to understand why.

It would have been very easy in the early days for any of the OC staff, the police, the T9 themselves to say, "there's a distinct possibility that someone with a spare key may have been involved" and yet it's just not mentioned... instead we have broken/jemmied shutters and/or patio doors.

Only once that all starts running out of steam - and as I've said before, fairly early in 2009 from memory - does it start to gather momentum as a "theory" to explain how the comings and goings could have been achieved.

That which is not Impossible is Possible.

It remains possible (in fact probable) that rogue and lost keys existed.

It also remains possible, not impossible, Madeleine died in the apartment or outside it.

I have never said otherwise.