So..What Was Judge Knowles Verdict This Week?😌

[APRIL]

It's on the police logs, though.

Thank you, Mrswah. I'll pass that information on to Robittybobittybooboobear as it was he who asked the question.

[APRIL]

I think that is a fair assumption.   OK, we know when Jeremy made his call to the police timed at 3:36 AM so when does Jeremy say his Dad called him? 

The police break into the house and Nevill's body is in rigor mortis then (7:30 AM or thereabouts)  That is 4 plus hours later, which is more than enough time for rigor to set in.

What is the latest time a third party could shoot Nevill and still have rigor at 7:30 AM?

Mrswah says the answer is in the police logs!

[mrswah]

Mrswah says the answer is in the police logs!

Ah, sorry! I thought you meant the time when Jeremy called the police. My mistake.

[Caroline]

It's on the police logs, though.

West admitted that he had probably written the time he wrote the log, not the time he received the call.

[Robittybob1]

West admitted that he had probably written the time he wrote the log, not the time he received the call.

Don't the police call someone from the phone company to get them to isolate the phone line into WHF?  What time does the phone company say they were called?  What time did the police set out to WHF?

I used to think to establish the time of death was a really important aspect of any police investigation. All three adults were out of bed two of them lying in the same room.   Surely physics of cooling would mean Sheila and June would cool at similar rates.   Take their body temperatures and room temperature and use the cooling rate formula to find out when they deceased.
If my theory is correct Sheila would be warmer than the other two adults so it would seem that Sheila died last provided it was possible for her to pull the trigger to fire her last and fatal shot.   That must have been an assessment based on gun position. 
The final shot sprayed blood onto the door behind her head.  She was lying on the floor when the final shot occurred.  The gun would need to be in line with the trajectory, but I don't think that was the case.  Taf Jones should have realised the gun had been placed on her body to make it look like a suicide when it wasn't.

So did the bodies feel like they were at different temperatures?

[Robittybob1]

I don't know that we do know what time Jeremy called police because he changed his mind. He says his father called 3(ish)?

So depending on if he made the call to Julie before or after the call to the police, and how many calls to the police did he make before he found a station that was manned that time of the morning.  We might be able to estimate when Nevill rang Jeremy (whether fact or fiction).

Personally I think Jeremy rang Julie before he rang the police.   Does she mention that he rang the police?
He gave two versions in his statements.  If he wasn't too concerned that Sheila had a gun, he might have given her the maximum amount of time to do damage.

[mrswah]

So depending on if he made the call to Julie before or after the call to the police, and how many calls to the police did he make before he found a station that was manned that time of the morning.  We might be able to estimate when Nevill rang Jeremy (whether fact or fiction).

Personally I think Jeremy rang Julie before he rang the police.   Does she mention that he rang the police?
He gave two versions in his statements.  If he wasn't too concerned that Sheila had a gun, he might have given her the maximum amount of time to do damage.

Hm.  Could it be possible that the killings were actually done by Sheila, but that  Jeremy wasn't too upset about it?  I have to admit, I have often wondered that.

[Robittybob1]

Hm.  Could it be possible that the killings were actually done by Sheila, but that  Jeremy wasn't too upset about it?  I have to admit, I have often wondered that.

It is all possible up to the point of Sheila killing herself.  That second shot IMO had to be from someone else.  She didn't move after the first shot. 

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I think the silencer was in place throughout his killing spree and was only removed with the realisation when setting up the 'suicide' scenario that Sheila could not possibly have killed herself with it in place.

I'm a bit bemused why Bamber 'hid' it in the cupboard ... obviously it never occurred to him that it had become contaminated with the blood of his victims.

I don't know how many bullets he thought it would take to wipe out his family but even if he had initially calculated two each (although the number he used on the boys might negate my supposition) that would have been ten shots, each one increasing the potential of being heard and couldn't have been mistaken for a poacher or someone taking a pot shot at a fox.
Twenty five shots certainly increased that risk. 

I don't think he would have started shooting without the moderator being in place.

• use of the moderator lessened the risk of the shootings being heard from outside
• it may have bought him time inside the house with the confused victims not processing what was happening until too late that is if they had wakened at all ... and he nearly miscalculated that one.

He had to use the moderator for all the reasons you mentioned, Brietta:

He didn’t want neighbours hearing gunshots

And certainly didn’t want to wake the family


He clearly figured out that Sheila couldn’t have killed herself with the moderator attached, besides which, he also realised Sheila wouldn’t have thought about attaching the moderator had she gone berserk and lost her mind, hence why he placed it waayyy back in the cupboard tucked away in a box.

He obviously wiped/rinsed it before hiding it, but clearly didn’t realise back spatter would be deep inside the baffles.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

You don't always get back spatter.

Well, they did in this case as it was in the moderator.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

You've forgotten the hair and paint!

That one grey hair and tiny particle of red paint was almost invisible to the eye: it only got noticed by close inspection — something Jeremy didn’t have time or thought to do.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Where is the science of back spatter explained?   Especially the pattern of back spattering expected inside a sound moderator.  I've found that the basics is understood but is there a scientific study done on it?

The experts who studied the moderator in the laboratory established that the blood inside and on the baffles was the exact pattern of how back spatter blows back.

[Robittybob1]

The experts who studied the moderator in the laboratory established that the blood inside and on the baffles was the exact pattern of how back spatter blows back.

So it goes inside the sound moderator but not onto the hands holding the gun.  Why?  It wasn't Sheila holding the gun when the moderator was attached.

"The experts who studied the moderator in the laboratory established that the blood inside and on the baffles was the exact pattern of how back spatter blows back."  When I read that in a statement I might believe it.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

There's no reliable evidence re difference in noise with/without silencer.  Firearm discharge within a normal dwelling ie soft furnishings etc will sound completely different from how it sounds outside in open space.

If we are to believe the silencer was found with blood, paint and a strand of hair attached to the outside we also have to believe that JB overlooked all of this despite having to turn the silencer a number of times to detach it from the rifle.

The pathological evidence doesn't support a "fierce fight" in the kitchen or anything approaching.

I think you’ll find there is reliable evidence that firing a rifle with a silencer attached reduces the sound significantly, hence why people buy them 🙂

They’re always used to shoot rabbits, so as not to scare them off target

I think we should believe the silencer was found with blood inside, unless you’re suggesting the police, ballistics, forensics and scientists had a mass hallucination when discovering the blood inside and sending it for analysis. Likewise the paint, which turned out to be an exact match of the paint on the mantel — and came from where the scratches were found underneath the mantel. They established the scratches were made in a pattern conducive to there having been a struggle.

The pathological evidence from Nevill’s body which showed his skull smashed in exposing his brain, including the injuries where he desperately tried to defend himself is consistent with more than a fierce beating/struggle/fight — so the pathologist and police said.

[mrswah]

It is all possible up to the point of Sheila killing herself.  That second shot IMO had to be from someone else.  She didn't move after the first shot.

I agree. I'd like to know how long after the first shot, the second one was fired. I think that could tell us rather a lot!