Lee Rainbow, the foremost Criminal Profiler in Britain

[amaraltheofficeboy]

Cos it would have interfered with flight paths and things

So what was the difference in April/May 2008?

planes flew higher

ORLY.

sorry - my reply was a little flippant - what I meant to say say was - read a little and learn a lot.

In other words - bollocks

[AnneGuedes]

So what was the difference in April/May 2008?

Much less media, hopefully none !
Up to the middle of May they were looking for an alive Madeleine, then Robert M became arguido but, unfortunately, Martin S stated RM wasn't the carrier of the little girl. Then it was June, the TP7 had gone and lots of tourists arrived. They should have done it then, even if the climatic and light conditions and also state of vegetation were different. Doing it a year after would have been better than nothing, at least for the McCann, as the PR said.

[AnneGuedes]

why did the PJ put the safety of a missing little girl ahead of the convenience of the holidaymakers whose holidays would be disturbed by a reconstruction just days after the disappearance when it would have been of real value in assisting with that search?

You wouldn't write this if you knew this country, which is not mine but where I live. In Portugal children are princes and treated this way ! (Holidaymakers aren't : it's clear they come here only because of the sun and the sea).

[AnneGuedes]

   


I maintain that they did the logical and most natural thing in the circumstances. They approached the reception of the complex where they were staying. It is exactly what I would have done at the time and exactly what I did in mid 2008 when I had need of police assistance while abroad. It was after that that I learned of the 112 number.

So you had the same awful experience of a missing child ? Did you wait half an hour before sending someone to a five minutes walking distance place, whereas you had a cell phone and a local nearby knowing the alert nb (taught in primary school here in Portugal) ? I suppose everything ended well.
Do you need a link proving every employee in the OC speaks English ?

[Carana]

Don't they call it the 'golden hour' or somesuch - after a person disappears - the actions that are carried out within that timeframe often determine the outcome of said investigation.
   

Yes but the "golden hour" (Mark Harrison's expression) was wasted by their not calling immediately (when Mrs McCann hurryied back to the Tapas Bar) on their cell phones the European alert nb 112 that answers in English and would have sent the PJ right away.

Do you really think that the Tapas group would have been aware of the 112 number which was almost wholly unknown in the UK in 2007?  Do you really think they would have known as you state that they would have got an answer in English on that number?  (Incidentally I am not certain that this is true. My understanding is that the operator will have understanding of English but will respond in their own language. Can you clarify?)

Here is a report from three years after the disappearance which specifies that only 10% of English people even then were aware of the 112 number.

http://ec.europa.eu/news/justice/100211_en.htm

I know that I was not aware of the 112 number in 2007. A specific incident in mid 2008 brought it to my attention and I know that I would have had no idea what number to use to call the police directly in Portugal.  I suspect the McCanns did the best thing they could by getting the reception to contact the police for them.

Everybody knew that nb in Portugal and dialing this nb you're attended at least in Basic English (experiment !). Don't you realize that all Tapas employees, except for the gardeners may be, speak English and don't you realize the McCann knew it after spending 5 days in the resort ? The Tapas employees would have given the alert nb if they had been told the shutters/window had been forced. The main reception guy called first the OC manager... And calling the GNR instead of the PJ he showed he didn't suspect an abduction.

Who initially responds to a 112 call in Portugal?

[gilet]

why did the PJ put the safety of a missing little girl ahead of the convenience of the holidaymakers whose holidays would be disturbed by a reconstruction just days after the disappearance when it would have been of real value in assisting with that search?

You wouldn't write this if you knew this country, which is not mine but where I live. In Portugal children are princes and treated this way ! (Holidaymakers aren't : it's clear they come here only because of the sun and the sea).

I wrote that because it is actually the excuse that Goncalo Amaral (I believe he is PORTUGUESE) gave. Would you like the reference?

[registrar]

Don't they call it the 'golden hour' or somesuch - after a person disappears - the actions that are carried out within that timeframe often determine the outcome of said investigation.
   

Yes but the "golden hour" (Mark Harrison's expression) was wasted by their not calling immediately (when Mrs McCann hurryied back to the Tapas Bar) on their cell phones the European alert nb 112 that answers in English and would have sent the PJ right away.

Do you really think that the Tapas group would have been aware of the 112 number which was almost wholly unknown in the UK in 2007?  Do you really think they would have known as you state that they would have got an answer in English on that number?  (Incidentally I am not certain that this is true. My understanding is that the operator will have understanding of English but will respond in their own language. Can you clarify?)

Here is a report from three years after the disappearance which specifies that only 10% of English people even then were aware of the 112 number.

http://ec.europa.eu/news/justice/100211_en.htm

I know that I was not aware of the 112 number in 2007. A specific incident in mid 2008 brought it to my attention and I know that I would have had no idea what number to use to call the police directly in Portugal.  I suspect the McCanns did the best thing they could by getting the reception to contact the police for them.

Everybody knew that nb in Portugal and dialing this nb you're attended at least in Basic English (experiment !). Don't you realize that all Tapas employees, except for the gardeners may be, speak English and don't you realize the McCann knew it after spending 5 days in the resort ? The Tapas employees would have given the alert nb if they had been told the shutters/window had been forced. The main reception guy called first the OC manager... And calling the GNR instead of the PJ he showed he didn't suspect an abduction.

Who initially responds to a 112 call in Portugal?

PSP in urban areas and GNR in more rural areas like the far corner of the Algarve

acc to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6634283.stm

[gilet]

   


I maintain that they did the logical and most natural thing in the circumstances. They approached the reception of the complex where they were staying. It is exactly what I would have done at the time and exactly what I did in mid 2008 when I had need of police assistance while abroad. It was after that that I learned of the 112 number.

So you had the same awful experience of a missing child ? Did you wait half an hour before sending someone to a five minutes walking distance place, whereas you had a cell phone and a local nearby knowing the alert nb (taught in primary school here in Portugal) ? I suppose everything ended well.
Do you need a link proving every employee in the OC speaks English ?

At no point have I ever said I had the same awful experience as a missing child. Your claim that I have is ludicrous.

I have no idea at all what your claim about the staff in the OC speaking English is about. They used the staff in the OC to deal with the situation.

And as to your earlier comment that everyone in Portugal knows the 112 number that simply is not true.

A January 2013 study tells us that only 29% of the Portuguese population know that EU wide number six years after 2007.

According to the latest Eurobarometer Survey on 112, 29% of Portuguese people know they can use 112 everywhere in the EU.

https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/112-portugal

And yes in my instance in 2008 my possessions were recovered from the taxi driver who had stolen them.

[gilet]

Don't they call it the 'golden hour' or somesuch - after a person disappears - the actions that are carried out within that timeframe often determine the outcome of said investigation.
   

Yes but the "golden hour" (Mark Harrison's expression) was wasted by their not calling immediately (when Mrs McCann hurryied back to the Tapas Bar) on their cell phones the European alert nb 112 that answers in English and would have sent the PJ right away.

Do you really think that the Tapas group would have been aware of the 112 number which was almost wholly unknown in the UK in 2007?  Do you really think they would have known as you state that they would have got an answer in English on that number?  (Incidentally I am not certain that this is true. My understanding is that the operator will have understanding of English but will respond in their own language. Can you clarify?)

Here is a report from three years after the disappearance which specifies that only 10% of English people even then were aware of the 112 number.

http://ec.europa.eu/news/justice/100211_en.htm

I know that I was not aware of the 112 number in 2007. A specific incident in mid 2008 brought it to my attention and I know that I would have had no idea what number to use to call the police directly in Portugal.  I suspect the McCanns did the best thing they could by getting the reception to contact the police for them.

Everybody knew that nb in Portugal and dialing this nb you're attended at least in Basic English (experiment !). Don't you realize that all Tapas employees, except for the gardeners may be, speak English and don't you realize the McCann knew it after spending 5 days in the resort ? The Tapas employees would have given the alert nb if they had been told the shutters/window had been forced. The main reception guy called first the OC manager... And calling the GNR instead of the PJ he showed he didn't suspect an abduction.

Who initially responds to a 112 call in Portugal?

PSP in urban areas and GNR in more rural areas like the far corner of the Algarve

acc to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6634283.stm

So that answers the AnneGuedes question as to why they contacted the GNR and not the PJ. Because the emergency number which the OC staff used presumably reached the GNR. Nothing suspicious there then.

[registrar]

Don't they call it the 'golden hour' or somesuch - after a person disappears - the actions that are carried out within that timeframe often determine the outcome of said investigation.
   

Yes but the "golden hour" (Mark Harrison's expression) was wasted by their not calling immediately (when Mrs McCann hurryied back to the Tapas Bar) on their cell phones the European alert nb 112 that answers in English and would have sent the PJ right away.

Do you really think that the Tapas group would have been aware of the 112 number which was almost wholly unknown in the UK in 2007?  Do you really think they would have known as you state that they would have got an answer in English on that number?  (Incidentally I am not certain that this is true. My understanding is that the operator will have understanding of English but will respond in their own language. Can you clarify?)

Here is a report from three years after the disappearance which specifies that only 10% of English people even then were aware of the 112 number.

http://ec.europa.eu/news/justice/100211_en.htm

I know that I was not aware of the 112 number in 2007. A specific incident in mid 2008 brought it to my attention and I know that I would have had no idea what number to use to call the police directly in Portugal.  I suspect the McCanns did the best thing they could by getting the reception to contact the police for them.

Everybody knew that nb in Portugal and dialing this nb you're attended at least in Basic English (experiment !). Don't you realize that all Tapas employees, except for the gardeners may be, speak English and don't you realize the McCann knew it after spending 5 days in the resort ? The Tapas employees would have given the alert nb if they had been told the shutters/window had been forced. The main reception guy called first the OC manager... And calling the GNR instead of the PJ he showed he didn't suspect an abduction.

Who initially responds to a 112 call in Portugal?

PSP in urban areas and GNR in more rural areas like the far corner of the Algarve

acc to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6634283.stm

So that answers the AnneGuedes question as to why they contacted the GNR and not the PJ. Because the emergency number which the OC staff used presumably reached the GNR. Nothing suspicious there then.

Quite, GNR were the designated first responders

[Eleanor]

Does 112 work in France?  I've been here 20 years and I've never heard that it does.

[gilet]

Does 112 work in France?  I've been here 20 years and I've never heard that it does.

https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/112-france

112 works in all the following countries

https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/112-your-country

[AnneGuedes]

Don't they call it the 'golden hour' or somesuch - after a person disappears - the actions that are carried out within that timeframe often determine the outcome of said investigation.
   

Yes but the "golden hour" (Mark Harrison's expression) was wasted by their not calling immediately (when Mrs McCann hurryied back to the Tapas Bar) on their cell phones the European alert nb 112 that answers in English and would have sent the PJ right away.

Do you really think that the Tapas group would have been aware of the 112 number which was almost wholly unknown in the UK in 2007?  Do you really think they would have known as you state that they would have got an answer in English on that number?  (Incidentally I am not certain that this is true. My understanding is that the operator will have understanding of English but will respond in their own language. Can you clarify?)

Here is a report from three years after the disappearance which specifies that only 10% of English people even then were aware of the 112 number.

http://ec.europa.eu/news/justice/100211_en.htm

I know that I was not aware of the 112 number in 2007. A specific incident in mid 2008 brought it to my attention and I know that I would have had no idea what number to use to call the police directly in Portugal.  I suspect the McCanns did the best thing they could by getting the reception to contact the police for them.

Everybody knew that nb in Portugal and dialing this nb you're attended at least in Basic English (experiment !). Don't you realize that all Tapas employees, except for the gardeners may be, speak English and don't you realize the McCann knew it after spending 5 days in the resort ? The Tapas employees would have given the alert nb if they had been told the shutters/window had been forced. The main reception guy called first the OC manager... And calling the GNR instead of the PJ he showed he didn't suspect an abduction.

Who initially responds to a 112 call in Portugal?

PSP in urban areas and GNR in more rural areas like the far corner of the Algarve

acc to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6634283.stm

The Algarve cost is now mainly a urban area. The GNR would have been alerted by the 112 if the child had been reported as likely wandering off (since there was no sign of intruder and the door wasn't locked). But, if told shutters and window were forced and a child was missing, the 112 would have certainly alerted the PJ. Matthew Oldfield only said a child was missing.

[amaraltheofficeboy]

Lee Rainbow,  the foremost Criminal Profiler in Britain

112 discussion - wow

[Carana]

Soooo....

Someone in a panic informs the reception that a child is missing.

A protocol was put in place, wasn't it?


On the night of 3rd May, after having finished work, I planned to meet a group of colleagues at 22.30 to go out. At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the 'Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child'.

(snip)

The hotel manager, John Hill arrived at the location from which the searches were being organised and I can confirm that he called the police. John stayed at the location and I several times went to search the grounds. I went with Amy and we searched the highest part of the complex behind the apartments. The search lasted for about 10 minutes and then we returned. At that moment John asked me to go to the apartment the girl had disappeared from and, on behalf of Mark Warner, provide all the help the family might need.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm