Lee Rainbow, the foremost Criminal Profiler in Britain

[registrar]

Don't they call it the 'golden hour' or somesuch - after a person disappears - the actions that are carried out within that timeframe often determine the outcome of said investigation.
   

Yes but the "golden hour" (Mark Harrison's expression) was wasted by their not calling immediately (when Mrs McCann hurryied back to the Tapas Bar) on their cell phones the European alert nb 112 that answers in English and would have sent the PJ right away.

Do you really think that the Tapas group would have been aware of the 112 number which was almost wholly unknown in the UK in 2007?  Do you really think they would have known as you state that they would have got an answer in English on that number?  (Incidentally I am not certain that this is true. My understanding is that the operator will have understanding of English but will respond in their own language. Can you clarify?)

Here is a report from three years after the disappearance which specifies that only 10% of English people even then were aware of the 112 number.

http://ec.europa.eu/news/justice/100211_en.htm

I know that I was not aware of the 112 number in 2007. A specific incident in mid 2008 brought it to my attention and I know that I would have had no idea what number to use to call the police directly in Portugal.  I suspect the McCanns did the best thing they could by getting the reception to contact the police for them.

Everybody knew that nb in Portugal and dialing this nb you're attended at least in Basic English (experiment !). Don't you realize that all Tapas employees, except for the gardeners may be, speak English and don't you realize the McCann knew it after spending 5 days in the resort ? The Tapas employees would have given the alert nb if they had been told the shutters/window had been forced. The main reception guy called first the OC manager... And calling the GNR instead of the PJ he showed he didn't suspect an abduction.

Who initially responds to a 112 call in Portugal?

PSP in urban areas and GNR in more rural areas like the far corner of the Algarve

acc to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6634283.stm

The Algarve cost is now mainly a urban area. The GNR would have been alerted by the 112 if the child had been reported as likely wandering off (since there was no sign of intruder and the door wasn't locked). But, if told shutters and window were forced and a child was missing, the 112 would have certainly alerted the PJ. Matthew Oldfield only said a child was missing.

fluff and you being bitter for having been found out again for spreading falsehoods

[Eleanor]

Does 112 work in France?  I've been here 20 years and I've never heard that it does.

https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/112-france

112 works in all the following countries

https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/112-your-country

Thank you.  That rather proves your point.

[registrar]

oh - and I've been to Luz - unlike you

 it's not high rise flats/urbanization - like most of the Algarve coast

it's a village - in the countryside

pipe/smoke it time methinks - or maybe not

[gilet]

Don't they call it the 'golden hour' or somesuch - after a person disappears - the actions that are carried out within that timeframe often determine the outcome of said investigation.
   

Yes but the "golden hour" (Mark Harrison's expression) was wasted by their not calling immediately (when Mrs McCann hurryied back to the Tapas Bar) on their cell phones the European alert nb 112 that answers in English and would have sent the PJ right away.

Do you really think that the Tapas group would have been aware of the 112 number which was almost wholly unknown in the UK in 2007?  Do you really think they would have known as you state that they would have got an answer in English on that number?  (Incidentally I am not certain that this is true. My understanding is that the operator will have understanding of English but will respond in their own language. Can you clarify?)

Here is a report from three years after the disappearance which specifies that only 10% of English people even then were aware of the 112 number.

http://ec.europa.eu/news/justice/100211_en.htm

I know that I was not aware of the 112 number in 2007. A specific incident in mid 2008 brought it to my attention and I know that I would have had no idea what number to use to call the police directly in Portugal.  I suspect the McCanns did the best thing they could by getting the reception to contact the police for them.

Everybody knew that nb in Portugal and dialing this nb you're attended at least in Basic English (experiment !). Don't you realize that all Tapas employees, except for the gardeners may be, speak English and don't you realize the McCann knew it after spending 5 days in the resort ? The Tapas employees would have given the alert nb if they had been told the shutters/window had been forced. The main reception guy called first the OC manager... And calling the GNR instead of the PJ he showed he didn't suspect an abduction.

Who initially responds to a 112 call in Portugal?

PSP in urban areas and GNR in more rural areas like the far corner of the Algarve

acc to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6634283.stm

The Algarve cost is now mainly a urban area. The GNR would have been alerted by the 112 if the child had been reported as likely wandering off (since there was no sign of intruder and the door wasn't locked). But, if told shutters and window were forced and a child was missing, the 112 would have certainly alerted the PJ. Matthew Oldfield only said a child was missing.

No he didn't. If you read the Statement he gave, he said,  "You've got to phone the Police, ... a child's been taken."

[AnneGuedes]

So that answers the AnneGuedes question as to why they contacted the GNR and not the PJ. Because the emergency number which the OC staff used presumably reached the GNR. Nothing suspicious there then.

Quite, GNR were the designated first responders
[/quote]
The GNR are not the "designated first responders" at all in a urban area like Praia da Luz. Anyhow if called and told a child is missing from her bed, the door being locked and the window having been forced, they immediately call the PJ because it's obviously a criminal case.

[registrar]

So that answers the AnneGuedes question as to why they contacted the GNR and not the PJ. Because the emergency number which the OC staff used presumably reached the GNR. Nothing suspicious there then.

Quite, GNR were the designated first responders

The GNR are not the "designated first responders" at all in a urban area like Praia da Luz. Anyhow if called and told a child is missing from her bed, the door being locked and the window having been forced, they immediately call the PJ because it's obviously a criminal case.
[/quote]

busted and protesting too much for having been caught out

[gilet]

So that answers the AnneGuedes question as to why they contacted the GNR and not the PJ. Because the emergency number which the OC staff used presumably reached the GNR. Nothing suspicious there then.

Quite, GNR were the designated first responders

The GNR are not the "designated first responders" at all in a urban area like Praia da Luz. Anyhow if called and told a child is missing from her bed, the door being locked and the window having been forced, they immediately call the PJ because it's obviously a criminal case.

busted and protesting too much for having been caught out
[/quote]

So why did the GNR (who are the first responders there)  not "immediately" call the PJ then?

[registrar]

So that answers the AnneGuedes question as to why they contacted the GNR and not the PJ. Because the emergency number which the OC staff used presumably reached the GNR. Nothing suspicious there then.

Quite, GNR were the designated first responders

The GNR are not the "designated first responders" at all in a urban area like Praia da Luz. Anyhow if called and told a child is missing from her bed, the door being locked and the window having been forced, they immediately call the PJ because it's obviously a criminal case.

busted and protesting too much for having been caught out

So why did the GNR (who are the first responders there)  not "immediately" call the PJ then?
[/quote]

You would have to ask the GNR that I'm afraid

Guessing - in the first minutes after arriving on the scene - the guys could not establish a 'crime' had been commited

[AnneGuedes]

  If you read the Statement he gave, he said,  "You've got to phone the Police, ... a child's been taken."

You're right, that's what he said, one year after, but not in his first two statements.
Anyhow neither the GNR nor the PJ were told the shutters and window had been forced.

[gilet]

  If you read the Statement he gave, he said,  "You've got to phone the Police, ... a child's been taken."

You're right, that's what he said, one year after, but not in his first two statements.
Anyhow neither the GNR nor the PJ were told the shutters and window had been forced.

No there is no reference at all in the first two statements because the PJ never asked him what he said or what he did regarding the phone call in those two statements. In a Police interview you answer questions. If the Police don't ask then you don't give the information.

Now please tell us how you categorically know that neither the PJ nor the GNR were told the shutters had been forced or are you just guessing?

[AnneGuedes]

fluff and you being bitter for having been found out again for spreading falsehoods

Quoting you : Ad hominems add nothing to debate ;)

[registrar]

fluff and you being bitter for having been found out again for spreading falsehoods

Quoting you : Ad hominems add nothing to debate ;)

Not ad hominems - statement of fact

[registrar]

you don't have mods to cry to on here

and get the reasonable posters banned

shame - seems you can't have your cake and eat it

[gilet]

  If you read the Statement he gave, he said,  "You've got to phone the Police, ... a child's been taken."

You're right, that's what he said, one year after, but not in his first two statements.
Anyhow neither the GNR nor the PJ were told the shutters and window had been forced.

I repeat,  please tell us how you categorically know that neither the PJ nor the GNR were told the shutters had been forced or are you just guessing?

[AnneGuedes]

  If you read the Statement he gave, he said,  "You've got to phone the Police, ... a child's been taken."

You're right, that's what he said, one year after, but not in his first two statements.
Anyhow neither the GNR nor the PJ were told the shutters and window had been forced.

No there is no reference at all in the first two statements because the PJ never asked him what he said or what he did regarding the phone call in those two statements. In a Police interview you answer questions. If the Police don't ask then you don't give the information.

Now please tell us how you categorically know that neither the PJ nor the GNR were told the shutters had been forced or are you just guessing?

I suppose "you don't give an information if the police don't ask", except if you have to complain that 1) the call was made (10:41), sort of twenty minutes (or more) after asked for and 2) the PJ wasn't called because the GNR wasn't informed of the "taken".
I read the statements in the files, as you likely did, and found no mention of someone speaking of forced shutters and window. That detail being crucial, I guess it would have been reported in any case (even if the shutters and the window hadn't been forced).