Author Topic: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth  (Read 19981 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #90 on: February 17, 2021, 05:04:04 PM »
There is... But you want to dismiss it. Then there is the evidence Wolters has not disclosed... Which you also want to dismiss

We are waiting!  "Why are we waiting?"  https://youtu.be/T3to8QdXlpU
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Offline faithlilly

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #91 on: February 17, 2021, 05:28:24 PM »
There is a connection.

There is a connection with his phone which pinged in Luz at a relevant time.

There is location and there is familiarity with location.

He is a known criminal and it is known he had no qualms about illegally entering properties in pursuit of his nefarious activities.

Of all the paedophiles on the loose in the Algarve I reckon he was certainly worth a second in depth look when the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance hit an impasse ~ yet we are informed he was checked and ruled out at the time.

Yes his phone pinged around the Luz area...he lived there. As did other paedophiles we are lead to believe.

Yes he would be familiar with the location...he lived there. As did other paedophiles we are lead to believe.

Yes he is a petty criminal who breaks into holidaymakers apartments but has no record of molesting youngsters while inside those apartments or kidnapping children.

And of course he should have been checked out. I posted a quote earlier from the PJ that Brueckner’s details were passed to OG in 2012 but they took it no further. It appears that  Brueckner wasn’t flagged up in any investigation until 2017 when another petty criminal put his name forward, possibly for leniency as he faced a long sentence for people trafficking.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #92 on: February 17, 2021, 05:30:20 PM »
Yes his phone pinged around the Luz area...he lived there. As did other paedophiles we are lead to believe.

Yes he would be familiar with the location...he lived there. As did other paedophiles we are lead to believe.

Yes he is a petty criminal who breaks into holidaymakers apartments but has no record of molesting youngsters while inside those apartments or kidnapping children.

And of course he should have been checked out. I posted a quote earlier from the PJ that Brueckner’s details were passed to OG in 2012 but they took it no further. It appears that  Brueckner wasn’t flagged up in any investigation until 2017 when another petty criminal put his name forward, possibly for leniency as he faced a long sentence for people trafficking.
Is it really THAT easy to get 8 years knocked off your prison sentence?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline misty

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #93 on: February 17, 2021, 05:41:11 PM »
https://www.tovima.gr/2017/08/26/society/i-skotlant-giarnt-psaxnei-to-mystiko-tis-mikris-mantlin-stin-athina/
 27 August 2017, 05:45

Google translate

According to documents and testimonies revealed by "To Vima tis Kyriakis", the British police have been cooperating with the Hellenic Police in the last few days. for the examination of a 46-year-old German who had been arrested and resides in our country and is identified as an important and reliable witness in the thriller of little Madeline. As it still turns out, a Scotland Yard team met the man a few days ago in Athens and obtained critical information about the girl's fate..........

continued with relevant info about Busching..
Until a few weeks ago, the Greek dimension of the thriller appeared. On July 18, 2017, the Directorate of International Police Cooperation on Katehaki Avenue drafted a document that referred to an update of the "liaison" of the Hellenic Police. in London by the Metropolitan Police of Great Britain. As it is noted, "in May 2017, the 46-year-old man of German origin, who lives in Athens, contacted the team of the" Grange "operation, in order to assist in the specific investigations" . According to the same document, the 46-year-old had been imprisoned for the case of illegal immigrants and was present at the police services, but without being identified.
Reliable witness?
As indicated in the document of the Directorate of International Police Cooperation based on the information of Scotland Yard, " so far the information he has given voluntarily and without monetary or other consideration to the Metropolitan Police about the case has been cross-checked and is considered a reliable source" !

A further investigation by the Police Cooperation Directorate revealed that the 46-year-old German, who lived in France, was arrested in 2011 in Igoumenitsa when he tried to transport three illegal immigrants from Africa in his car. A case was filed against him and he was then released. . According to other sources, the foreigner was arrested in 2015 in Thessaloniki when he came back to Greece for a vacation. He was taken to court where he was sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. He had denied any wrongdoing and claimed that he "facilitated the three foreigners who had hitchhiked him". He was detained in Chania prison, from where he communicated with the members of the "Grange" operation.
He was released a few weeks ago and allegedly used a mobile phone belonging to a foreigner from a Balkan country, who lived in Agios Panteleimon. In addition, he has been banned from leaving the country in view of the trial in the second instance, which has been determined for next month.
Testimony in "VIMA"
"To Vima" located the 46-year-old foreigner and a critical witness in the case of three-year-old Madeline in an area of ​​Fthiotida. As he noted, "I met a few days ago with a member of the Scotland Yard who came to Athens. I give important information about the case. On the days that Madeline disappeared, I was - in a neighboring area - in this province of Portugal. I had contacted the local police even then, but the investigation had been abandoned. Now there is intense interest from Scotland Yard for what I know. You understand that something serious is happening for them to come here to meet me. But I have an explicit prohibition on saying anything to anyone else. My cooperation with the English police will continue in the coming days "

***

However, when asked about Madeline's fate and whether she believes she is alive, he only answered that "the ten years that have passed since then are many"
_____________________________________________________________________________


Credit Chiatos on Websleuths who also said that it's common in Greece for prisoners to only serve 1/3 of their sentence.


Later on I will try to do a timeline showing where Seyferth has lived since 2007, based on his various Facebook accounts.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #94 on: February 17, 2021, 05:57:02 PM »
https://www.tovima.gr/2017/08/26/society/i-skotlant-giarnt-psaxnei-to-mystiko-tis-mikris-mantlin-stin-athina/
 27 August 2017, 05:45

Google translate

According to documents and testimonies revealed by "To Vima tis Kyriakis", the British police have been cooperating with the Hellenic Police in the last few days. for the examination of a 46-year-old German who had been arrested and resides in our country and is identified as an important and reliable witness in the thriller of little Madeline. As it still turns out, a Scotland Yard team met the man a few days ago in Athens and obtained critical information about the girl's fate..........

continued with relevant info about Busching..
Until a few weeks ago, the Greek dimension of the thriller appeared. On July 18, 2017, the Directorate of International Police Cooperation on Katehaki Avenue drafted a document that referred to an update of the "liaison" of the Hellenic Police. in London by the Metropolitan Police of Great Britain. As it is noted, "in May 2017, the 46-year-old man of German origin, who lives in Athens, contacted the team of the" Grange "operation, in order to assist in the specific investigations" . According to the same document, the 46-year-old had been imprisoned for the case of illegal immigrants and was present at the police services, but without being identified.
Reliable witness?
As indicated in the document of the Directorate of International Police Cooperation based on the information of Scotland Yard, " so far the information he has given voluntarily and without monetary or other consideration to the Metropolitan Police about the case has been cross-checked and is considered a reliable source" !

A further investigation by the Police Cooperation Directorate revealed that the 46-year-old German, who lived in France, was arrested in 2011 in Igoumenitsa when he tried to transport three illegal immigrants from Africa in his car. A case was filed against him and he was then released. . According to other sources, the foreigner was arrested in 2015 in Thessaloniki when he came back to Greece for a vacation. He was taken to court where he was sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. He had denied any wrongdoing and claimed that he "facilitated the three foreigners who had hitchhiked him". He was detained in Chania prison, from where he communicated with the members of the "Grange" operation.
He was released a few weeks ago and allegedly used a mobile phone belonging to a foreigner from a Balkan country, who lived in Agios Panteleimon. In addition, he has been banned from leaving the country in view of the trial in the second instance, which has been determined for next month.
Testimony in "VIMA"
"To Vima" located the 46-year-old foreigner and a critical witness in the case of three-year-old Madeline in an area of ​​Fthiotida. As he noted, "I met a few days ago with a member of the Scotland Yard who came to Athens. I give important information about the case. On the days that Madeline disappeared, I was - in a neighboring area - in this province of Portugal. I had contacted the local police even then, but the investigation had been abandoned. Now there is intense interest from Scotland Yard for what I know. You understand that something serious is happening for them to come here to meet me. But I have an explicit prohibition on saying anything to anyone else. My cooperation with the English police will continue in the coming days "

***

However, when asked about Madeline's fate and whether she believes she is alive, he only answered that "the ten years that have passed since then are many"
_____________________________________________________________________________


Credit Chiatos on Websleuths who also said that it's common in Greece for prisoners to only serve 1/3 of their sentence.


Later on I will try to do a timeline showing where Seyferth has lived since 2007, based on his various Facebook accounts.

Why do you think Busching waited 9 years to come forward with the information?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Brietta

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #95 on: February 17, 2021, 06:00:52 PM »
https://www.tovima.gr/2017/08/26/society/i-skotlant-giarnt-psaxnei-to-mystiko-tis-mikris-mantlin-stin-athina/
 27 August 2017, 05:45

Google translate

According to documents and testimonies revealed by "To Vima tis Kyriakis", the British police have been cooperating with the Hellenic Police in the last few days. for the examination of a 46-year-old German who had been arrested and resides in our country and is identified as an important and reliable witness in the thriller of little Madeline. As it still turns out, a Scotland Yard team met the man a few days ago in Athens and obtained critical information about the girl's fate..........

continued with relevant info about Busching..
Until a few weeks ago, the Greek dimension of the thriller appeared. On July 18, 2017, the Directorate of International Police Cooperation on Katehaki Avenue drafted a document that referred to an update of the "liaison" of the Hellenic Police. in London by the Metropolitan Police of Great Britain. As it is noted, "in May 2017, the 46-year-old man of German origin, who lives in Athens, contacted the team of the" Grange "operation, in order to assist in the specific investigations" . According to the same document, the 46-year-old had been imprisoned for the case of illegal immigrants and was present at the police services, but without being identified.
Reliable witness?
As indicated in the document of the Directorate of International Police Cooperation based on the information of Scotland Yard, " so far the information he has given voluntarily and without monetary or other consideration to the Metropolitan Police about the case has been cross-checked and is considered a reliable source" !

A further investigation by the Police Cooperation Directorate revealed that the 46-year-old German, who lived in France, was arrested in 2011 in Igoumenitsa when he tried to transport three illegal immigrants from Africa in his car. A case was filed against him and he was then released. . According to other sources, the foreigner was arrested in 2015 in Thessaloniki when he came back to Greece for a vacation. He was taken to court where he was sentenced to seven years and five months in prison. He had denied any wrongdoing and claimed that he "facilitated the three foreigners who had hitchhiked him". He was detained in Chania prison, from where he communicated with the members of the "Grange" operation.
He was released a few weeks ago and allegedly used a mobile phone belonging to a foreigner from a Balkan country, who lived in Agios Panteleimon. In addition, he has been banned from leaving the country in view of the trial in the second instance, which has been determined for next month.
Testimony in "VIMA"
"To Vima" located the 46-year-old foreigner and a critical witness in the case of three-year-old Madeline in an area of ​​Fthiotida. As he noted, "I met a few days ago with a member of the Scotland Yard who came to Athens. I give important information about the case. On the days that Madeline disappeared, I was - in a neighboring area - in this province of Portugal. I had contacted the local police even then, but the investigation had been abandoned. Now there is intense interest from Scotland Yard for what I know. You understand that something serious is happening for them to come here to meet me. But I have an explicit prohibition on saying anything to anyone else. My cooperation with the English police will continue in the coming days "

***

However, when asked about Madeline's fate and whether she believes she is alive, he only answered that "the ten years that have passed since then are many"
_____________________________________________________________________________


Credit Chiatos on Websleuths who also said that it's common in Greece for prisoners to only serve 1/3 of their sentence.


Later on I will try to do a timeline showing where Seyferth has lived since 2007, based on his various Facebook accounts.

Thanks, Misty.
So nothing extraordinary or remarkable about early release from Greek jails.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #96 on: February 17, 2021, 06:15:39 PM »
Why do you think Busching waited 9 years to come forward with the information?
He didn’t. 
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline faithlilly

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #97 on: February 17, 2021, 06:26:41 PM »
Thanks, Misty.
So nothing extraordinary or remarkable about early release from Greek jails.

From my link the least he would get was 10 years. I’d say that he was released after 2 very remarkable.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #98 on: February 17, 2021, 06:37:34 PM »
Busching and Seyforth appear to have been drifters around Europe, visiting places where hippies gathered in Portugal, Spain and Italy. Both seemed to be thieves and opportunists, doing what they needed to do to survive. According to Friedrich Fulscher, Christian B’s lawyer;

“My client is being investigated on the claims of two very dubious and unbelievable witnesses who are convicted criminals themselves and have problems with drink and drugs.”

Although Busching claims Brueckner told him in 2008 that he was involved in Madeleine McCann's disappearance, he apparently did nothing about it until 2017, when he spoke to UK police officers. Why he decided to speak at that point isn't known as far as I know.

Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #99 on: February 17, 2021, 06:45:16 PM »
From my link the least he would get was 10 years. I’d say that he was released after 2 very remarkable.
A maximum of ten years according to this
Article 323A
“1. A person who, by the use of force, threat of force or other coercive means, or by imposition or abuse of power, or by abduction, recruits, transports, transfers inside or outside the territory of the country, retains, harbours, delivers with or without a benefit a person to another person, or receives a person, with the purpose of removing cells, tissues or organs of a person or exploiting the labour or begging or forced marriage thereof, shall be punished by a maximum penalty of 10 years’ imprisonment and by a fine of ten thousand to fifty thousand euros.

https://eucpn.org/sites/default/files/document/files/EL_0.pdf

"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #100 on: February 17, 2021, 06:56:16 PM »
More information on Greek punishments for human trafficking offences here

Of the 33 convictions for which the government provided sentencing data, 31 received prison sentences of more than 18 months. Eleven sex traffickers received prison sentences between 18 months and nine years with fines ranging between €1,000 ($1,200) to €50,000 ($60,020). Nineteen sex traffickers received prison sentences between 10 years and 20 years with fines ranging between €25,000 ($30,010) and €71,300 ($85,590). One labor trafficker received four months imprisonment and another received 10 years with a fine of €50,000 ($60,020). The government sentenced one trafficker to community-based rehabilitation and could not provide sentencing data for four traffickers. Courts also issued six convictions at the second instance (one in 2016); sentences ranged from three years and a small fine to six years and €10,000 ($12,000).

https://www.state.gov/reports/2018-trafficking-in-persons-report/greece/
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #101 on: February 17, 2021, 07:10:48 PM »
This should put paid to the idea that our man would have received a prison sentence of 10 years:

Law 2910 / 2 May 2001
Legal entry and stay in the Hellenic territory
Article 55
Obligations of Carriers – Sanctions
1. Skipper or captains of ships or other sea-going vessels or aircraft, and drivers of any kind of transport, who transports to Greece from abroad aliens who have no right of entry into Greek territory, or who have been refused entry for whatever reason, together with those who provide onward transport for them within Greece or facilitate their transport or onward journey, or provide them with a hiding-place, will be liable to:
a) a prison sentence of at least one year and a fine of between 5.000€ and 20.000 € for each person transported
b) a prison sentence of at least two years and a fine of between 15.000€ and 50.000 € for each person transported, where the transport is carried out on a professional basis, or where the offender is a public servant or a tourist, shipping or travel agent.
c) imprisonment and a fine of at least 100.000€ if danger to persons may result from
the action
d) life imprisonment and a fine of at least 500.000€ if incident resulted death
The period allowed for appeal and the appeal itself do not result in suspension of the

https://www.osservatoriointerventitratta.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Law_to_combat_Trafficking_in_Human_Beings_crimes_against_carnal_freedom_.pdf

"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #102 on: February 17, 2021, 07:13:19 PM »
Busching and Seyforth appear to have been drifters around Europe, visiting places where hippies gathered in Portugal, Spain and Italy. Both seemed to be thieves and opportunists, doing what they needed to do to survive. According to Friedrich Fulscher, Christian B’s lawyer;

“My client is being investigated on the claims of two very dubious and unbelievable witnesses who are convicted criminals themselves and have problems with drink and drugs.”

Although Busching claims Brueckner told him in 2008 that he was involved in Madeleine McCann's disappearance, he apparently did nothing about it until 2017, when he spoke to UK police officers. Why he decided to speak at that point isn't known as far as I know.
According to him he went to the Portuguese police at thr time, but obviously you refuse to believe that.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline misty

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #103 on: February 17, 2021, 07:14:06 PM »
Why do you think Busching waited 9 years to come forward with the information?

Maybe he was told to? I ask myself why he would even be remotely interested in the case of British child who went missing in Portugal many years before he made the call to OG, just as Tatschl was interested enough to pay close attention to the Netflix documentary about the same incident.
IIRC Busching's sentence was 7 years and he served about 2 years 5 months.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Helge Bushing And Manfred Seyferth
« Reply #104 on: February 17, 2021, 07:21:41 PM »
Maybe he was told to? I ask myself why he would even be remotely interested in the case of British child who went missing in Portugal many years before he made the call to OG, just as Tatschl was interested enough to pay close attention to the Netflix documentary about the same incident.
IIRC Busching's sentence was 7 years and he served about 2 years 5 months.
Some places are like that you can serve 1/3 of your sentence and the rest out on parole.  (Not sure where but I think that was the case.)

"Oliver is released on parole
Oliver qualifies for parole after serving one-third of his sentence – one year. Parole means Oliver is released from prison but has to follow conditions set by the New Zealand Parole Board. Oliver will have to follow these conditions for the remaining two years of his sentence."  https://www.justice.govt.nz/about/learn-about-the-justice-system/explore-the-criminal-justice-system/trial-and-prison/
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.