Dog alerts indicating Cadaver Odor

[Redblossom]

Ah! I see your problem.

I said that an alert from Eddie alone can never INDICATE cadaver cadaver odor.

You misinterpreted this as me saying that Eddie alerts alone this can never BE cadaver odor.

An alert from Eddie shows is that it could be dried blood or cadaver odor (or an error). As blood is many thousands of times more likely to be found, a sigle alert cannot INDICATE cadaver odor as it is far more likely to be a cut finger or shaving nick. If Keela fails to react, this tends to indicate cadaver odor (or an error) but not blood.

Fine,sorted then apart drom the fact you were suggesting eddie alerted to blood on the remnant scent of a mummy in that example!...as for could be an error as the third possibility, theres a fourth, he could be right, which you seem to have expunged from your reasoning which I find odd if you are considering,ALL possibilities, never mind, had enough of this never ending round in circles debate for one day

Edited

[debunker]

Ah, yes.

The definitive proof (in that report somewhere) that Eddie alerted to a coconut shell ...

How does a test in an Oxford lab on the find revealing the presence of collagen make it definitely a coconut? Collagen is only found in mammals.

I think you will find the test was done in Kew Gardens, London.

In February 2009 States of Jersey Police sent the fragment to Kew Gardens in the UK for testing. In May 2009 the Kew experts[7] stated that the fragment was a piece of endocarp of Cocos nucifera, thereby confirming that the fragment was a piece of coconut.[8]

Don't forget, Grime was selling these dogs to Harper, in Jersey, by using his private business. He also used the video recorded in Praia da Luz, of the McCann's car, to do so. If I'm not mistaken, this was before the official files were released.

Well then seems to be a discrepancy in what was sent to be tested....oxford lab says collagen, kew gardens says coconut, the two dont marry

Do you have the cite for the collagen result? Was contamination excluded?

[debunker]

Are we agreed at least that the dogs are not proved to be 100% accurate?

[Redblossom]

Are we agreed at least that the dogs are not proved to be 100% accurate?

i think that much is probably true, but it matters not very much, the pertinent thing is the saying beyond a reasonable doubt and nothing posted here on this thread or anywhere else has convinced me that the dog alerts could be innocent and nothing to do with the missing child

JMHO

As for the tests on the coconut/skull, I have not read too much about it, not researched that case,so I dont have a cite for anything apart from what I already posted,but I am sure that a hatchet job on Mr Grime and the dogs was done in Jersey, as well as the original policeman Mr Harper, if anything stinks of a cover up and I am not a conspiracy theorist  I would saythat probably was, and it wouldnt be the first time in a high profile case

[Redblossom]

I noticed a difference in time spent on the other apartments too.

In 5a Eddie was made to smell almost every inch of the floor by the wardrobe, called back to smell the furniture etc.

In the other apartments it seemed to me as if it was a quick search.   

Eddie was very interested in smelling behind I believe a cupboard in one of the other apartments?   Although the furniture was pulled out I didn't see Mr. Grime spending the length of time going over the floor as he had in 5a.

The same in the bedroom of the other apartments.   Eddie was smelling something under the bed in one of them and Mr. Grime calls him away actually telling him 'no'.   Mr. Grime didn't pull the bed out and have Eddie smell all over the floor of the bedroom.

We must remember too that 5a had been rented out to I think three other families, before Eddie and Keela were called in.

This is true, and better said than I could.  Mr. Grime did most definitely spend much more time with the dogs on all things McCann.

This is true, but why ? Because he knew about a subliminal doubt concerning the McCanns and had been asked to be very careful and leave no room to chance ? Or because he knew his dog had found something or nothing minutes after the door was open ?

He knew which was The McCann's appartment and which was The McCann's car, and he knew that Amaral had doubts.  There isn't necessarily anything wrong about this, but time should have been more evenly spent elsewhere.

The blood found wasn't Madeleines, so what are the chances that no blood was spilled in other appartments?

The whole thing was wrong in the way in which it was gone about, and nothing found could ever have been used in a Court.

In fact, the only person who benefited was Martin Grime himself.

The results were INCONCLUSIVE,the FSS said it was not possible to clarify one way or another, ergo it is false to say the blood found was NOT Madeleine's.

[debunker]

Are we agreed at least that the dogs are not proved to be 100% accurate?

i think that much is probably true, but it matters not very much, the pertinent thing is the saying beyond a reasonable doubt and nothing posted here on this thread or anywhere else has convinced me that the dog alerts could be innocent and nothing to do with the missing child

JMHO

As for the tests on the coconut/skull, I have not read too much about it, not researched that case,so I dont have a cite for anything apart from what I already posted,but I am sure that a hatchet job on Mr Grime and the dogs was done in Jersey, as well as the original policeman Mr Harper, if anything stinks of a cover up and I am not a conspiracy theorist  I would saythat probably was, and it wouldnt be the first time in a high profile case

So in both cases you are just offering your unsupported opinion.

Now what weight should we place on your unsupported opinion?

[debunker]

The results were INCONCLUSIVE,the FSS said it was not possible to clarify one way or another, ergo it is false to say the blood found was NOT Madeleine's.

It is also false to say it was Madeleine's.

It is correct to say that 15 of Madeleine's markers were found in a sample made up of at least three people's DNA. It is known that such a result is shared with 50% of the population of Europe. It is also a fact that every one of Madeleine's markers were shared withher parents and half of them were shared with the twins. That makes any inter presentation very difficult.

[Redblossom]

Are we agreed at least that the dogs are not proved to be 100% accurate?

i think that much is probably true, but it matters not very much, the pertinent thing is the saying beyond a reasonable doubt and nothing posted here on this thread or anywhere else has convinced me that the dog alerts could be innocent and nothing to do with the missing child

JMHO

As for the tests on the coconut/skull, I have not read too much about it, not researched that case,so I dont have a cite for anything apart from what I already posted,but I am sure that a hatchet job on Mr Grime and the dogs was done in Jersey, as well as the original policeman Mr Harper, if anything stinks of a cover up and I am not a conspiracy theorist  I would saythat probably was, and it wouldnt be the first time in a high profile case

So in both cases you are just offering your unsupported opinion.

Now what weight should we place on your unsupported opinion?

Not all opinions have to be supported by anything, an opinion is an opinion as said, formed and based on previous opinions facts staements and the rest unless its an accusation or allegation or statement of fact which can be backed up instantly, an opinion is formed over time and after reading lotsand thinking, surely you are not asking for a dated list of everything an opinion former has read to date?

As for the jersey case yes that is my opinion, though as i said i have not researched it so cannot assert anything about it

Since when did people have to PROVE their opinions were right, thats the meaning of an OPINION, its a personal view or conclusion, sheesh

[Redblossom]

I noticed a difference in time spent on the other apartments too.

In 5a Eddie was made to smell almost every inch of the floor by the wardrobe, called back to smell the furniture etc.

In the other apartments it seemed to me as if it was a quick search.   

Eddie was very interested in smelling behind I believe a cupboard in one of the other apartments?   Although the furniture was pulled out I didn't see Mr. Grime spending the length of time going over the floor as he had in 5a.

The same in the bedroom of the other apartments.   Eddie was smelling something under the bed in one of them and Mr. Grime calls him away actually telling him 'no'.   Mr. Grime didn't pull the bed out and have Eddie smell all over the floor of the bedroom.

We must remember too that 5a had been rented out to I think three other families, before Eddie and Keela were called in.

This is true, and better said than I could.  Mr. Grime did most definitely spend much more time with the dogs on all things McCann.

This is true, but why ? Because he knew about a subliminal doubt concerning the McCanns and had been asked to be very careful and leave no room to chance ? Or because he knew his dog had found something or nothing minutes after the door was open ?

He knew which was The McCann's appartment and which was The McCann's car, and he knew that Amaral had doubts.  There isn't necessarily anything wrong about this, but time should have been more evenly spent elsewhere.

The blood found wasn't Madeleines, so what are the chances that no blood was spilled in other appartments?

The whole thing was wrong in the way in which it was gone about, and nothing found could ever have been used in a Court.

In fact, the only person who benefited was Martin Grime himself.

The results were INCONCLUSIVE,the FSS said it was not possible to clarify one way or another, ergo it is false to say the blood found was NOT Madeleine's.

It is also false to say it was Madeleine's.

It is correct to say that 15 of Madeleine's markers were found in a sample made up of at least three people's DNA. It is known that such a result is shared with 50% of the population of Europe. It is also a fact that every one of Madeleine's markers were shared withher parents and half of them were shared with the twins. That makes any inter presentation very difficult.

Of course its wrong to say it WAS Madeleines. but I dont buy that that half of Europes population will have had that, if so, there would be no point in dna testing?

[debunker]

Are we agreed at least that the dogs are not proved to be 100% accurate?

i think that much is probably true, but it matters not very much, the pertinent thing is the saying beyond a reasonable doubt and nothing posted here on this thread or anywhere else has convinced me that the dog alerts could be innocent and nothing to do with the missing child
7
JMHO

As for the tests on the coconut/skull, I have not read too much about it, not researched that case,so I dont have a cite for anything apart from what I already posted,but I am sure that a hatchet job on Mr Grime and the dogs was done in Jersey, as well as the original policeman Mr Harper, if anything stinks of a cover up and I am not a conspiracy theorist  I would saythat probably was, and it wouldnt be the first time in a high profile case

So in both cases you are just offering your unsupported opinion.

Now what weight should we place on your unsupported opinion?

Not all opinions have to be supported by anything, an opinion is an opinion as said, formed and based on previous opinions facts staements and the rest unless its an accusation or allegation or statement of fact which can be backed up instantly, an opinion is formed over time and after reading lotsand thinking, surely you are not asking for a dated list of everything an opinion former has read to date?

As for the jersey case yes that is my opinion, though as i said i have not researched it so cannot assert anything about it

Since when did people have to PROVE their opinions were right, thats the meaning of an OPINION, its a personal view or conclusion, sheesh

It goes like this- an opinion tells people what has occurred in your mind; a fact tells you what happens in the real world.

[Eleanor]

I noticed a difference in time spent on the other apartments too.

In 5a Eddie was made to smell almost every inch of the floor by the wardrobe, called back to smell the furniture etc.

In the other apartments it seemed to me as if it was a quick search.   

Eddie was very interested in smelling behind I believe a cupboard in one of the other apartments?   Although the furniture was pulled out I didn't see Mr. Grime spending the length of time going over the floor as he had in 5a.

The same in the bedroom of the other apartments.   Eddie was smelling something under the bed in one of them and Mr. Grime calls him away actually telling him 'no'.   Mr. Grime didn't pull the bed out and have Eddie smell all over the floor of the bedroom.

We must remember too that 5a had been rented out to I think three other families, before Eddie and Keela were called in.

This is true, and better said than I could.  Mr. Grime did most definitely spend much more time with the dogs on all things McCann.

This is true, but why ? Because he knew about a subliminal doubt concerning the McCanns and had been asked to be very careful and leave no room to chance ? Or because he knew his dog had found something or nothing minutes after the door was open ?

He knew which was The McCann's appartment and which was The McCann's car, and he knew that Amaral had doubts.  There isn't necessarily anything wrong about this, but time should have been more evenly spent elsewhere.

The blood found wasn't Madeleines, so what are the chances that no blood was spilled in other appartments?

The whole thing was wrong in the way in which it was gone about, and nothing found could ever have been used in a Court.

In fact, the only person who benefited was Martin Grime himself.

The results were INCONCLUSIVE,the FSS said it was not possible to clarify one way or another, ergo it is false to say the blood found was NOT Madeleine's.

We know that a Northern European man bled in that appartment.  Are you saying that no one else bled in any of the other appartments?

[debunker]

Of course its wrong to say it WAS Madeleines. but I dont buy that that half of Europes population will have had that, if so, there would be no point in dna testing?

But that was the analysis of the senior forensic scientist after training to post graduate level, working for decades for the FSS.

What weight does your tiny, ill informed and erroneous belief have against such a formal sworn scientific opinion?

[Eleanor]

Not all opinions have to be supported by anything, an opinion is an opinion as said, formed and based on previous opinions facts staements and the rest unless its an accusation or allegation or statement of fact which can be backed up instantly, an opinion is formed over time and after reading lotsand thinking, surely you are not asking for a dated list of everything an opinion former has read to date?

As for the jersey case yes that is my opinion, though as i said i have not researched it so cannot assert anything about it

Since when did people have to PROVE their opinions were right, thats the meaning of an OPINION, its a personal view or conclusion, sheesh

Libel is an opinion, unless deliberately known to be a lie.  Both are unacceptable

[AnneGuedes]

I am a retired nurse. I have worked in hospital motuaries.

A thanatopractor then...

[Redblossom]

Libel is an opinion, unless deliberately known to be a lie.  Both are unacceptable

Who is libelling here? Discussing the dogs repertoire apart from ferryman who posts mr grime has l.... in his cv? Has cued the dogs, has skewed things to further his career?
 >@@(*&)
Informed  opinions are not libel unless  they accuse, or state something which is untrue and defamatory, last time I looked they were LEGAL and part of a democratic society

Ps Kate Mccann libelled Mr Grime in her book too