Dog alerts indicating Cadaver Odor

[DCI]

Here's a couple for you, Redblossom.





Then there's these 7 people, walking about, with no protective clothing. There must be about 15 people in that garage

[Redblossom]

Aww bless you DCI, I will watch and read when I get a few hours tomorrow, but dont hold on to your hat that I will conclude or have an opinion that Mr Grime was a f..... and got videoed being one LOL
 

as someone else said, not in his career interest to do anything of the kind, if you think about it

[DCI]

Aww bless you DCI, I will watch and read when I get a few hours tomorrow, but dont hold on to your hat that I will conclude or have an opinion that Mr Grime was a fraud and got videoed being one LOL
 

as someone else said, not in his career interest to do anything of the kind, if you think about it

Where did I say Grime was a f.... and got videoed being one?

Levy did the video, not Grime  8-)(--)

[Redblossom]

Mr Grime says that it is Eddie's job to react to both cadaver and blood.

**** so no need for keela then, make your mind up

My ignore thing didnt work,must retry,bye debunker

Oops i added you as buddy instead thats why lol

[AnneGuedes]

I said that an alert from Eddie alone can never INDICATE cadaver cadaver odor.

You misinterpreted this as me saying that Eddie alerts alone this can never BE cadaver odor.

An alert from Eddie shows is that it could be dried blood or cadaver odor (or an error). As blood is many thousands of times more likely to be found, a sigle alert cannot INDICATE cadaver odor as it is far more likely to be a cut finger or shaving nick. If Keela fails to react, this tends to indicate cadaver odor (or an error) but not blood.

I misinterpreted too, just like Redblossom. I'm rather relieved not to be alone since you questioned my skills in English.

Neither of us misunderstood really. DB is definitely to trying to play up the idea that Eddie alerts to blood more than cadaver odour from a dead body remnant scent. That much is obvious.  Eddie when tested with cadaver odour alone and not blood, alerted to it, therefore his alone alert does prove its cadaver odour. The way this is being posited is that Keela has to prove eddies alerts are not to cadaver odour, if she alerts in the same place, doubt is put there what the alert was to, when its a fact keela is brought in to find forensics, in the absence of a body, via blood, not play a game of dice if Eddie alerted to cadaver or blood from a living person. If Eddies job was to react to both cadaver and blood, Keelas job would be redundant!


So the question DB is now, why have a blood dog working in tandem with a cadaver dog that alerts to blood?
 >@@(*&)

You answered, Redblossom, brilliant !

[debunker]

Mr Grime says that it is Eddie's job to react to both cadaver and blood.

**** so no need for keela then, make your mind up

My ignore thing didnt work,must retry,bye debunker

EDdie indicates blood or cadaver, Keela's negative excludes blood and brings cadaver into the frame.

[ferryman]

Also, I think Grime lied outright about Eddie's alleged training in America.

Do you agree with this, Debunker ?

I don't know.

What did he say? When? In what context?

In Britain, it is outlawed as illegal and unethical to use human body parts to train cadaver dogs. 

1. Given that, and given, also, that we have a tried and trusted alternative method of training dogs using swine cadavers and swine cadaver scent, why would we indulge both the expense and hypocrisy of sending dogs to America to be trained in ways outlawed and deemed unethical here?

If we are going to indulge that expense and hypocrisy, why ever on a dog (at the time Eddie is supposed to have gone) about 18 months from retirement?

2.  An answer to an FOI question I have submitted cited parts from a personal development review for Grime which appeared to indicate the dog had received this training.  A report from the US that would confirm it was described as "pending"

I submitted a follow-up question asking whether this report was ever received.  They answered.  It never was.  As they put it, there is no information held.

3 In answer to a more general question about Eddie's training put by someone else, SYP said Eddie's training was (sic) in accordance with standard ACPO guidelines, which say nothing about sending dogs to America to be trained on human cadavers, because it is illegal here (etc) ...  A link was given to the ACPO dog training manual ...

Another discrepancy of Grime's is that he claims Eddie was involved in over 200 cases.

SYP say just 37.

[debunker]

I said that an alert from Eddie alone can never INDICATE cadaver cadaver odor.

You misinterpreted this as me saying that Eddie alerts alone this can never BE cadaver odor.

An alert from Eddie shows is that it could be dried blood or cadaver odor (or an error). As blood is many thousands of times more likely to be found, a sigle alert cannot INDICATE cadaver odor as it is far more likely to be a cut finger or shaving nick. If Keela fails to react, this tends to indicate cadaver odor (or an error) but not blood.

I misinterpreted too, just like Redblossom. I'm rather relieved not to be alone since you questioned my skills in English.

Neither of us misunderstood really. DB is definitely to trying to play up the idea that Eddie alerts to blood more than cadaver odour from a dead body remnant scent. That much is obvious.  Eddie when tested with cadaver odour alone and not blood, alerted to it, therefore his alone alert does prove its cadaver odour. The way this is being posited is that Keela has to prove eddies alerts are not to cadaver odour, if she alerts in the same place, doubt is put there what the alert was to, when its a fact keela is brought in to find forensics, in the absence of a body, via blood, not play a game of dice if Eddie alerted to cadaver or blood from a living person. If Eddies job was to react to both cadaver and blood, Keelas job would be redundant!


So the question DB is now, why have a blood dog working in tandem with a cadaver dog that alerts to blood?
 >@@(*&)

You answered, Redblossom, brilliant !

IT goes like this.

EDdie r reacts to blood or cadaver (Mr Grime states so)
Keela does not react to cadaver so if she does not alert, then cadaver is a reasonable inference; if she does react it makes it most likely that it is blood.

[Redblossom]

I said that an alert from Eddie alone can never INDICATE cadaver cadaver odor.

You misinterpreted this as me saying that Eddie alerts alone this can never BE cadaver odor.

An alert from Eddie shows is that it could be dried blood or cadaver odor (or an error). As blood is many thousands of times more likely to be found, a sigle alert cannot INDICATE cadaver odor as it is far more likely to be a cut finger or shaving nick. If Keela fails to react, this tends to indicate cadaver odor (or an error) but not blood.

I misinterpreted too, just like Redblossom. I'm rather relieved not to be alone since you questioned my skills in English.

Neither of us misunderstood really. DB is definitely to trying to play up the idea that Eddie alerts to blood more than cadaver odour from a dead body remnant scent. That much is obvious.  Eddie when tested with cadaver odour alone and not blood, alerted to it, therefore his alone alert does prove its cadaver odour. The way this is being posited is that Keela has to prove eddies alerts are not to cadaver odour, if she alerts in the same place, doubt is put there what the alert was to, when its a fact keela is brought in to find forensics, in the absence of a body, via blood, not play a game of dice if Eddie alerted to cadaver or blood from a living person. If Eddies job was to react to both cadaver and blood, Keelas job would be redundant!


So the question DB is now, why have a blood dog working in tandem with a cadaver dog that alerts to blood?
 >@@(*&)

You answered, Redblossom, brilliant !

I am glad you understood what I was trying to say Anne. Thank you.And I hope others did too.

[ferryman]

Mr Grime says that it is Eddie's job to react to both cadaver and blood.

**** so no need for keela then, make your mind up

My ignore thing didnt work,must retry,bye debunker

EDdie indicates blood or cadaver, Keela's negative excludes blood and brings cadaver into the frame.

DB is definitely to trying to play up the idea that Eddie alerts to blood more than cadaver odour

I would think there's a lot more blood around in most surroundings than there are/have been bodies.

So I would hope most cadaver dogs do ...

[debunker]

Also, I think Grime lied outright about Eddie's alleged training in America.

Do you agree with this, Debunker ?

I don't know.

What did he say? When? In what context?

In Britain, it is outlawed as illegal and unethical to use human body parts to train cadaver dogs. 

1. Given that, and given, also, that we have a tried and trusted alternative method of training dogs using swine cadavers and swine cadaver scent, why would we indulge both the expense and hypocrisy of sending dogs to America to be trained in ways outlawed and deemed unethical here?

If we are going to indulge that expense and hypocrisy, why ever on a dog (at the time Eddie is supposed to have gone) about 18 months from retirement?

2.  An answer to an FOI question I have submitted cited parts from a personal development review for Grime which appeared to indicate the dog had received this training.  A report from the US that would confirm it was described as "pending"

I submitted a follow-up question asking whether this report was ever received.  They answered.  It never was.  As they put it, there is no information held.

3 In answer to a more general question about Eddie's training put by someone else, SYP said Eddie's training was (sic) in accordance with standard ACPO guidelines, which say nothing about sending dogs to America to be trained on human cadavers, because it is illegal here (etc) ...  A link was given to the ACPO dog training manual ...

Another discrepancy of Grime's is that he claims Eddie was involved in over 200 cases.

SYP say just 37.

Mr Grime does not list 200 cases. He says that in over 200 trials (I assume during trainingsessions) Eddie did not alert top park or other foodstuffs. Many people think thatthis means that in 200 trials he was never wrong about cadaver- not what wassaid.

[Redblossom]

Also, I think Grime lied outright about Eddie's alleged training in America.

Do you agree with this, Debunker ?

I don't know.

What did he say? When? In what context?

In Britain, it is outlawed as illegal and unethical to use human body parts to train cadaver dogs. 

1. Given that, and given, also, that we have a tried and trusted alternative method of training dogs using swine cadavers and swine cadaver scent, why would we indulge both the expense and hypocrisy of sending dogs to America to be trained in ways outlawed and deemed unethical here?

If we are going to indulge that expense and hypocrisy, why ever on a dog (at the time Eddie is supposed to have gone) about 18 months from retirement?

2.  An answer to an FOI question I have submitted cited parts from a personal development review for Grime which appeared to indicate the dog had received this training.  A report from the US that would confirm it was described as "pending"

I submitted a follow-up question asking whether this report was ever received.  They answered.  It never was.  As they put it, there is no information held.

3 In answer to a more general question about Eddie's training put by someone else, SYP said Eddie's training was (sic) in accordance with standard ACPO guidelines, which say nothing about sending dogs to America to be trained on human cadavers, because it is illegal here (etc) ...  A link was given to the ACPO dog training manual ...

Another discrepancy of Grime's is that he claims Eddie was involved in over 200 cases.

SYP say just 37.

Illegal in this country but not illegal in the usa and not illegal to a dog handler to train his dogs abroad either...cite any law that says a british dog cannot train on human cadavers abroad

[ferryman]

Mr Grime says that it is Eddie's job to react to both cadaver and blood.

**** so no need for keela then, make your mind up

My ignore thing didnt work,must retry,bye debunker

Oops i added you as buddy instead thats why lol

I've never found evidence before PdL that Eddie and Keela were deployed together. 

Keela would come into her own right for crimes where there is no murder, but culprits (of crimes other than murder) can be identified from findings of blood.

[debunker]

Also, I think Grime lied outright about Eddie's alleged training in America.

Do you agree with this, Debunker ?

I don't know.

What did he say? When? In what context?

In Britain, it is outlawed as illegal and unethical to use human body parts to train cadaver dogs. 

1. Given that, and given, also, that we have a tried and trusted alternative method of training dogs using swine cadavers and swine cadaver scent, why would we indulge both the expense and hypocrisy of sending dogs to America to be trained in ways outlawed and deemed unethical here?

If we are going to indulge that expense and hypocrisy, why ever on a dog (at the time Eddie is supposed to have gone) about 18 months from retirement?

2.  An answer to an FOI question I have submitted cited parts from a personal development review for Grime which appeared to indicate the dog had received this training.  A report from the US that would confirm it was described as "pending"

I submitted a follow-up question asking whether this report was ever received.  They answered.  It never was.  As they put it, there is no information held.

3 In answer to a more general question about Eddie's training put by someone else, SYP said Eddie's training was (sic) in accordance with standard ACPO guidelines, which say nothing about sending dogs to America to be trained on human cadavers, because it is illegal here (etc) ...  A link was given to the ACPO dog training manual ...

Another discrepancy of Grime's is that he claims Eddie was involved in over 200 cases.

SYP say just 37.

Illegal in this country but not illegal in the usa and not illegal to a dog handler to train his dogs abroad either...cite any law that says a british dog cannot train on human cadavers abroad

It seems that this is undecided- insufficient evidence either way.

[AnneGuedes]

Folie À deux, if I may !
It was a tense afternoon, but thanks to you, nurse Debunker, I was about to write what Redblossom did, better than I would have.
Great day !