Author Topic: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean  (Read 846131 times)

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Offline Rusty

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1710 on: February 13, 2023, 08:12:14 PM »
I was not attacking anyone it was a genuine question. She is very knowledgeable on the case I have never said she wasn’t. I don’t know why you are trying to make out otherwise. As I said I was not looking to offend.

I already gave you the cite from the medical records etc I’m not sure what else you expect from me. I’m not going to make something up, or get in the same arguments with you again. It was from Scott and Sandra’s books and interviews.

I have been looking into the case on and off since the wap days not sure what year that was closed down. I have always used the name bullseye so if you were on wap you may or may not remember me. Not sure what that matters unless you are trying to ‘catch me out’ somehow. I have only ever said things as I see them.

I think you are a rather Machiavellian type person.

Offline Bullseye

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1711 on: February 13, 2023, 08:25:44 PM »
I think you are a rather Machiavellian type person.

I’m not sure how you get to that but you are entitled to you opinion.

Offline Bullseye

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1712 on: February 13, 2023, 08:26:37 PM »
Haven't we all got a little bit of oddity about us Faith/Bullseye, some more so than others - These boring alter ego's however projecting their own personal involvement and grievances upon others, such as Steph clearly being your enemy in whichever form you use at any given time. In the third person mostly.

The predictive tactics to try and prevent others from being listened to, Bullseye playing that alter ego role too. Both, three or even four at points need to be taken that rafter out your own eye/s first.

No one is my enemy, again that projection, that predictive personal involvement you have - Boring. If I see Steph expose lies then good on her, she certainly has been personally involved in innocence fraud, and I sure as hell know the lies and manipulation that are being put out in the name of truth - Nothing near the truth, and that is fact. Pull your big underpants up now and stop being aggrieved when others such as Steph are getting attention. - For isn't it that which truly aggrieves you, your enemy getting attention, attacking her personally in ones many ego's, because she is full on exposing how innocence fraud works having been involved personally with your ego's in it.

As I said to Mr Forbes also, every time he attacks her, he is exposing how his fellow enabler is also rife where innocence fraud is concerned - In ones many alias's

These predictive ego's with their different roles to play, such as a sitter on the fence - Mighty big windows, the transparency could not be more see through. The same ego's, the same tactics that I have read on repeat when studying this case. The feeder, the disrupter, the raise this point and the answerer - Yawn!

No tactics, no egos and certainly no enemies. I have also found some of her posts to be very informative. Whoever else may or may not be attacking Nicholas over the years is nothing to do with me.  Nobody deserves to be attacked, Sandra or Nicholas included.

Offline Kenmair

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1713 on: February 13, 2023, 08:32:52 PM »
No tactics, no egos and certainly no enemies. I have also found some of her posts to be very informative. Whoever else may or may not be attacking Nicholas over the years is nothing to do with me.  Nobody deserves to be attacked, Sandra or Nicholas included.

I think when you have spent the best part of 20 years defending a child killer as SL has, and then whipping up a witch-hunt against the brother of the victim then I think she deserves everything that's coming to her, in a non violent way. I fear it's only a matter of time before one of her disciples takes matters into their own hands.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 08:56:27 PM by KenMore »

Offline Bullseye

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1714 on: February 13, 2023, 08:52:01 PM »
I think when you have spent the best part of 20 years defending a child killer as SL has, and then whipping up a witch-hunt against the brother of the victim then I think she deserves everything that's coming to her, in a non violent way. It's fear it's only a matter of time before one of her disciples takes matters into their own hands.

I think she must expect the online attacks but any physical abuse she may have had I don’t think was expected or deserved either.
I agree there are a lot of unstable people out there and naming names as Scott did was a dangerous move I think.

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1715 on: February 13, 2023, 08:52:56 PM »
Haven't we all got a little bit of oddity about us Faith/Bullseye, some more so than others - These boring alter ego's however projecting their own personal involvement and grievances upon others, such as Steph clearly being your enemy in whichever form you use at any given time. In the third person mostly.

The predictive tactics to try and prevent others from being listened to, Bullseye playing that alter ego role too. Both, three or even four at points need to be taken that rafter out your own eye/s first.

No one is my enemy, again that projection, that predictive personal involvement you have - Boring. If I see Steph expose lies then good on her, she certainly has been personally involved in innocence fraud, and I sure as hell know the lies and manipulation that are being put out in the name of truth - Nothing near the truth, and that is fact. Pull your big underpants up now and stop being aggrieved when others such as Steph are getting attention. - For isn't it that which truly aggrieves you, your enemy getting attention, attacking her personally in ones many ego's, because she is full on exposing how innocence fraud works having been involved personally with your ego's in it.

As I said to Mr Forbes also, every time he attacks her, he is exposing how his fellow enabler is also rife where innocence fraud is concerned - In ones many alias's

These predictive ego's with their different roles to play, such as a sitter on the fence - Mighty big windows, the transparency could not be more see through. The same ego's, the same tactics that I have read on repeat when studying this case. The feeder, the disrupter, the raise this point and the answerer - Yawn!

Yawn indeed.

Steph is exposing no one as no one is reading her stream of consciousness. Making claim after claim without context. Asking question after question without waiting, or wanting an answer. She does make some interesting points but they’re  so jumbled up with her visceral hatred of Dr Lean and her obvious need for absolution that they unfortunately get lost.

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Rusty

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1716 on: February 13, 2023, 09:10:01 PM »
I think when you have spent the best part of 20 years defending a child killer as SL has, and then whipping up a witch-hunt against the brother.

The whole Jones family have been the target. 2 decades (Narcissist) vendetta.

I fear it's only a matter of time before one of her disciples takes matters into their own hands.

And those that repeat the nonsense, there are a few flying monkeys on here that do so. Will be complacent if such actions take place. It is the reason why i ask for cites for such claims, its baseless claims such as blaming others without sourcing proper evidence, is dangerous.

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1717 on: February 13, 2023, 09:15:34 PM »
I think when you have spent the best part of 20 years defending a child killer as SL has, and then whipping up a witch-hunt against the brother of the victim then I think she deserves everything that's coming to her, in a non violent way. I fear it's only a matter of time before one of her disciples takes matters into their own hands.

Strangely I’ve just been reading about the stream of abuse that Stefan Kiszko and his mother were subjected to after he was convicted of the murder of Lesley Molseed, much of it from Lesley’s family. I’m sure his defenders were also subjected to similar abuse at the time. Three witnesses lied under oath and those lies played a large role in the majority 10-2 verdict.

Of course he was absolutely innocent.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1718 on: February 13, 2023, 09:16:23 PM »
The whole Jones family have been the target. 2 decades (Narcissist) vendetta.

And those that repeat the nonsense, there are a few flying monkeys on here that do so. Will be complacent if such actions take place. It is the reason why i ask for cites for such claims, its baseless claims such as blaming others without sourcing proper evidence, is dangerous.

I think you mean complicit.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Kenmair

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1719 on: February 13, 2023, 09:42:47 PM »
Strangely I’ve just been reading about the stream of abuse that Stefan Kiszko and his mother were subjected to after he was convicted of the murder of Lesley Molseed, much of it from Lesley’s family. I’m sure his defenders were also subjected to similar abuse at the time. Three witnesses lied under oath and those lies played a large role in the majority 10-2 verdict.

Of course he was absolutely innocent.

Absolutely. SK had learning difficulties and at one point Peter Sutcliffe was in the frame. The GM/West Yorkshire Police were shambolic however LM was convicted on the totality of the presented evidence and all other possible suspects were eliminated at an early stage.

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1720 on: February 13, 2023, 10:19:20 PM »
Absolutely. SK had learning difficulties and at one point Peter Sutcliffe was in the frame. The GM/West Yorkshire Police were shambolic however LM was convicted on the totality of the presented evidence and all other possible suspects were eliminated at an early stage.

A few questions.

Do you believe that L&B’s handling of the crime scene was competent? If not how can we ever know who should or should not have been eliminated?

Where did JF and GD say they were when their motorbike was seen at the v in the wall?

AB, after a flawed process, identified Luke as the youth she’d seen.
An anonymous witness identified Jodi’s brother as the youth she’d seen following Jodi.

Luke’s alibi was provided by 2 family members.
Jodi’s brother’s alibi was provided by 2 family members.

Luke’s brother’s memory was flawed…he said he couldn’t remember if Luke was in the house.
Jodi’s mother’s memory was flawed…she said the her son ate his dinner in his bedroom while her son himself said that he ate it at the table with Jodi.

Luke’s DNA wasn’t found on Jodi.
By transference Jodi’s brother’s DNA would more than probably been on Jodi ( he lived with her) so he certainly couldn’t be eliminated by his DNA alone.

What piece of evidence do you think the police had that eliminated Jodi’s brother as the perpetrator?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1721 on: February 13, 2023, 10:34:42 PM »
Has [moderated] Sandra Lean and fantasist Scott Forbes been communicating with Tam Walker and Carrie Walker?

Tam Walker
Hello, I'm Tam and something to know about me is I'm related 😳and I can't believe Luke is locked up for this gruesome crime.

Carolanne Robertson Graham
Related to whom ?

Tam Walker
Carolanne Robertson Graham first cousin to Judy

Carrie Walker
Carolanne Robertson Graham he is my Dad, we are relations to Jodi

Carrie Walker
Stuart Henderson its quite an eye-opener tbh found out alot about quite a few family members that was even hidden from us especially when we were through there quite alot.

Carrie Walker
Linda Whitson I'm very much in agreement with everything Scott mentions.
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Kenmair

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1722 on: February 13, 2023, 10:46:02 PM »
A few questions.

Do you believe that L&B’s handling of the crime scene was competent? If not how can we ever know who should or should not have been eliminated?

Where did JF and GD say they were when their motorbike was seen at the v in the wall?

AB, after a flawed process, identified Luke as the youth she’d seen.
An anonymous witness identified Jodi’s brother as the youth she’d seen following Jodi.

Luke’s alibi was provided by 2 family members.
Jodi’s brother’s alibi was provided by 2 family members.

Luke’s brother’s memory was flawed…he said he couldn’t remember if Luke was in the house.
Jodi’s mother’s memory was flawed…she said the her son ate his dinner in his bedroom while her son himself said that he ate it at the table with Jodi.

Luke’s DNA wasn’t found on Jodi.
By transference Jodi’s brother’s DNA would more than probably been on Jodi ( he lived with her) so he certainly couldn’t be eliminated by his DNA alone.

What piece of evidence do you think the police had that eliminated Jodi’s brother as the perpetrator?

No, L&B Police did not protect the crime scene at the time. They were a small suburban police force not equipped to deal with murders. If they were, they may have found more convincing evidence that would have stopped the trial from taking 9 weeks.

No one saw the moped at the V. It is impossible unless you are on the path and that only person was LK the cyclist who didnt see it.

The vague anonymous person who saw Joe following his sister has never been verified and if it did happen was only on the street and not the path that AB allegedly saw them on. [Name removed] usually met LM at the EH end of the path but on the night she was supposed to meet him in NB she never turned up? Why did he sit/stand at the end of his road only 150m away waiting for her whan he could have stayed at home and given her some of his pie and mashed tatties when she turned up?

Are you now saying LM had dinner with Jodi even though she never turned up?

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1723 on: February 13, 2023, 10:58:33 PM »
The clues that snared a murderer

SMALL but vital clues convinced police that Luke Mitchell was Jodi Jones’ killer, the murder inquiry’s leading investigator said today.

But detective chief superintendent Craig Dobbie said the teenager was nothing more than a witness at the beginning of the investigation.

It wasn’t until inconsistencies emerged in his statements that he became a suspect.

He said they tried to eliminate him from their enquiries but "they just couldn’t".

Mr Dobbie, 53, said more than 3000 statements were taken throughout the course of the inquiry.

"We interviewed everyone possible," he said. "We interviewed every male who had been viewed with general suspicion.

"That group included any males known to Jodi - both relatives and friends.

"Luke was one, and, at first, he was no different from the rest of them. We were just trying to eliminate people from that group.

"It wasn’t until July 3 that our suspicions about Luke increased. We had a degree of suspicion, but not enough to detain him.

"Things were starting to piece together - things his school friends were saying about him carrying knives; the sighting by the witness Andrina Bryson - who claimed she had seen Luke with a girl standing at the top of the Roan’s Dyke path on the day she was killed; and, most importantly, the difference in the statements given by Jodi’s family about how Jodi’s body had been found and Luke’s version of events.

"However, we still had to be aware that Luke was providing a statement voluntarily and that he may have been deeply traumatised at the time."

The next day, Mr Dobbie asked for Mitchell to be interviewed again - this time under police caution.

"We made it clear he was under caution - it was only fair to him to do so. This was when he further entrenched his position.

"This was a few days on after the killing so what he was saying at this stage was probably more accurate.

"There were critical differences in what he was saying about when the body was found. The family were consistent in their evidence.

"They all said Luke never walked past the V in the wall before climbing over and discovering the body. But Luke’s version was completely different.

"He said he walked past the wall a considerable distance and the dog reacted at the point relating to where Jodi’s body was.

"We couldn’t get away from this conflict in versions. We tried to eliminate Luke from our inquiries but we just couldn’t."

The next piece of information which gave detectives cause for suspicion concerned the wood burning stove in the Mitchell’s back garden.

Mitchell told police that his mother Corinne and brother Shane were using the stove that night. Corinne said it was not being used and Shane was not able to say either way. "We also had reports from neighbours saying they had smelled burning coming from the Mitchell’s back garden that night," said Mr Dobbie.

"Then there was the parka jacket," he added. "We spoke to friends, school teachers and others who knew Mitchell and established he had a parka jacket. The eye witnesses had also made references to a long parka style jacket. His mother said he had never owned one.

"When we searched the house, the parka was missing.

"But friends and family were adamant that he owned one. We also had the information about the wood burner and we started to paint a picture."

However, Mr Dobbie did not want to detain Mitchell until the DNA test results had come back from the lab.

"When the results came back there was not one DNA profile which could not be accounted for. Every profile belonged to people who knew Jodi, including Luke. However, what we didn’t have was DNA from someone unknown, which ruled out anyone unknown as the killer."

Mr Dobbie said: "In August we detained Luke for further questioning. We searched his house again and his father’s house but still there was no evidence of the jacket that we believed to have existed before the murder, or of any knife.

"At this stage, unless Luke gave us a confession or took us to the knife, we did not want to arrest him. We did not want to go down that road unless we were 100 per cent confident the circumstantial evidence we had was correct.

"It wasn’t until October that we believed that we had grounds to report Luke to the procurator fiscal for a circumstantial case.

"After carrying out their own investigations, and interviewing witnesses they supported us and, eventually, a warrant was issued for Luke’s arrest in April, 2004."

It was on this day that Mitchell’s house was searched again and Shane Mitchell admitted he had been looking at porn on the internet on the day of Jodi’s death.

He said he would not have done this if there was other people in the house - which did not support Luke’s alibi that he was at home with Shane at the time Jodi was killed.

Mr Dobbie said: "When we searched the house we also found a knife pouch with the inscription ‘[Name removed] 1989-2003’ and the numbers 666 written on it and one of Jodi’s favourite quotes. It was like some kind of memorial to Jodi.

"We made inquiries and discovered that Mrs Mitchell had bought a knife which came with a pouch identical to this one in December 2003. She said she had bought it for him to go on a camping trip. But why purchase that knife. It seemed bizarre, bearing in mind Jodi had been killed and that her son was a suspect.

"We started to question whether that knife was a replacement to one he had previously."

But today as Mitchell was found guilty, Lothian and Borders Police’s hunch was proved right, although there was severe criticism of their handling of the investigation during the case.

There was no murder weapon, no blood covered clothes - despite the gruesome nature of the murder - and no damning DNA find.

There was not even convincing eye-witness testimony.

The trial heard that Jodi’s body was left uncovered and exposed to the elements for eight hours after it was first discovered, possibly risking the destruction of vital DNA evidence.

The schoolgirl’s body and items around it had been moved before the forensic team started work.

Even though the knife used to murder Jodi had not been found, the bins in the area were allowed to be emptied before a thorough search could be carried out.

The way police carried out a virtual identity parade, presenting photographs of Luke and other youths to one witness, was also criticised during the trial at the High Court in Edinburgh.

A string of incidents were highlighted by Mitchell’s defence lawyer Donald Findlay, QC, during the 42-day trial.

In one blistering courtroom attack, Mr Findlay described the behaviour of detectives as "a disgrace".

The court heard that the first forensic scientist to examine the crime scene arrived more than eight hours after Jodi's body was found. Not only had her body been left uncovered overnight in the rain, but it had also been moved and items around it moved before Derek Scrimger arrived at the scene.

Under questioning from Mr Findlay, Mr Scrimger was forced to admit that it was "not an ideally managed crime scene from the very start".

The forensic scientist said he believed that a tent should have been erected over the scene.

Mr Scrimger’s work was further delayed because an earlier female colleague had arrived at the scene, but could not get over the wall to get to the body because she had a bad back.

The jury also heard that a pioneering lab using the most sensitive DNA test in Britain failed to identify Mitchell as the

It also emerged that detectives probing the murder broke normal guidelines by not putting Mitchell on an ID parade.

Mr Findlay claimed "a tactical decision" had been taken not to treat the boy fairly.

But today detective chief superintendent Craig Dobbie launched a vigorous defence of their detective work.

Mr Dobbie described the crime scene as one of the "finest I have ever seen".

He said that every care was taken to recover every single piece of evidence that was there.

And he defended claims made in court that the scene was not well managed.

Mr Dobbie admitted that the case against Luke Mitchell was purely circumstantial, but insisted Lothian and Borders Police Force had done a great job.

"We have been scrutinised by one of the finest defence lawyers in the country, but not one point has been inadmissible.

"I am open to suggestions as to where we could have made improvements in the investigation, but I can’t think of anything obvious."

https://www.scotsman.com/news/clues-snared-murderer-2470415
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 11:01:28 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #1724 on: February 13, 2023, 11:03:23 PM »
No, L&B Police did not protect the crime scene at the time.

Wasn’t a tent erected once Derek Scrimger/forensics arrived on scene?

“A forensics team carried out a search of the area, the crime scene was covered with a tent to protect any evidence from heavy rain and at first light the following day, a team of 20 officers began door-to-door inquiries.
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-scottish-mail-on-sunday/20130908/283626757738598
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 11:08:36 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation