Author Topic: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean  (Read 848172 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2775 on: April 15, 2023, 01:19:57 PM »
Sandra Lean has ignored the actual evidence and exploited the errors in the judgement and in some media articles

The timings in the judgement of killer Luke Mitchell’s case includes errors in relation to timings, similar to the errors on timings in the judgment of killer Simon Hall

Judith Jones sent a text to killer Luke Mitchell at 10:20pm

Source here
👇

30th June 2003 TIMELINE Of 14, Almost 15 Year Old Scottish Killer Luke Mitchell’s Murder (Part 174)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/04/09/30th-june-2003-timeline-of-14-year-old-killer-luke-mitchells-murder-part-174/

Do you think that you simply repeating a claim with no official source to back it up is an adequate answer to Bullseye’s question?

For future reference this is a source.

“At 10.40, some 40 minutes after Jodi should have been home, the alarm bells began to ring.

Her mother sent a text message, intended for Jodi, to Luke's mobile phone. Using her pet name for her daughter of "Toad", the text said:

"Two weeks grounding Toad, say bye to Luke."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12401131.why-silent-and-defiant-to-the-end-luke-mitchell-denied-the-family-of-jodi-jones-the-one-answer-they-needed/

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2776 on: April 15, 2023, 01:36:58 PM »
Do you think that you simply repeating a claim with no official source to back it up is an adequate answer to Bullseye’s question?

For future reference this is a source.

“At 10.40, some 40 minutes after Jodi should have been home, the alarm bells began to ring.

Her mother sent a text message, intended for Jodi, to Luke's mobile phone. Using her pet name for her daughter of "Toad", the text said:

"Two weeks grounding Toad, say bye to Luke."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12401131.why-silent-and-defiant-to-the-end-luke-mitchell-denied-the-family-of-jodi-jones-the-one-answer-they-needed/

You’ve quoted from an article that has blatantly ignored his knife threats of other young girls, leading up to his murder
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2777 on: April 15, 2023, 01:48:41 PM »
You’ve quoted from an article that has blatantly ignored his knife threats of other young girls, leading up to his murder

Please don’t deflect. The subject in hand was your claim that Luke received a text from Judith Jones at 10.20. That is demonstrably untrue.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2778 on: April 15, 2023, 02:05:54 PM »
Please don’t deflect. The subject in hand was your claim that Luke received a text from Judith Jones at 10.20. That is demonstrably untrue.

I believe he received the text message at 10:20pm

I do not believe Sandra Lean aka Jigsawman - her timeline has been manipulated

She’s even claimed the line was ‘engaged’ when the psycho killer phoned the Jones house at 5:32pm  *&^^&

Jigsawman aka Sandra Lean

Timeline Monday June 30th 2003.

4.05pm Jodi returns home from school
4.34 4.38pm Series of texts between Lukes phone and Judys phone (Jodis phone was broken, so Jodi borrowed her mothers)
4.39pm (approx) Judy plays a Rod Stewart track which lasts more than 5 minutes to Jodi and Joseph, leaving just 4 minutes for Jodi to get ready and leave in order for Bryson to have spotted her at 4.48
4.48-4.54pm Andrina Bryson sees a girl and a youth on the entrance to the path
4.50-4.55pm [Name removed] leaves on the motorbike to meet [Name removed] at 5pm. It is believed (although not confirmed) that he picked up the bike from [Name removed]s garden and drove along Lady path which runs at right angles to Roans Dyke, before cutting through the woods to meet [Name removed].
4.55pm Luke phones his mothers work and speaks to his grandmother
4.58pm 5.10 (approx) Shane is on the internet, so the home landline is engaged.
5.00pm Two youths on the moped are chased from the tool hire premises at Newbattle, and head towards the Newbattle entrance to the path
5.03pm Luke phones the speaking clock from his mobile
He phoned the speaking clock at 4:54pm
5.03 5.05pm Mystery man is spotted by 2 witnesses following Jodi on the street, on her way to the path. (Spot the obvious mistake according to the Bryson sighting, she was already on the path some 9 minutes earlier) Bryson did not see the mystery man
5.03-5.15pm Somewhere in this time window, the young mum was seen walking up the same street. She saw nothing.
5.03 5.15pm A cyclist travelling up the path from the Newbattle end hears a strangling sound behind the wall. He does not see the boys on the moped, or the mystery man, or Jodi
5.05pm The youths are seen re-starting the bike, which has cut out, at the entrance to the path
5.07pm Corinne captured on CCTV in the local shop on her way home from work
5.15pm Corinne arrives home from work.
5.15pm Jodi is believed to have been murdered at this time
There was actually a 20 minute window
5.15pm The moped is propped against the wall at the V, but the riders are nowhere to be seen
5.30pm Luke leaves the house and walks to the end of the street
5.32pm Luke calls Jodis house, but the line is engaged
The line was not engaged
5.40pm Luke calls the house again this time Alan Ovens answers. He says he
told Luke Jodi had left to meet him. Luke doesnt remember exactly what was said.
5.40pm Judy and Alan leave the house to go to the cemetery immediately
following the phone call from Luke (therefore Joseph now has no alibi)
5.45 5.50 Three schoolboys see Luke sitting on a wall at the end of his street (they passed him twice, as one of them got a puncture in his bike tyre, and they had to double back.)
5.50 6.05 6 witnesses say they saw a youth hanging around on the Newbattle Road, between the end of Lukes street, and the entrance to the path (although none of them claims to have seen him at the entrance itself.) Luke says he wandered up the street a little way to Barondale Cottages, which is approximately halfway between the end of his street and the entrance to the path, to see if he could see Jodi coming. He told the police this before these witnesses came forward.
6.50-6.55pm Luke phones some male friends to see what they are doing, as Jodi still hasnt shown
He invited David High to his house in Newbattle Abbey College crescent
7pm Luke phones his mother to tell her if Jodi comes to the house, he is in The Abbey, and to tell Jodi to come there.
9pm After hanging around the abbey for a couple of hours, the boys head for home. Luke goes up to his room and puts on a video of Red dwarf.
They did not hang around the abbey for a couple of hours. They went for a walk, at some point walked past the Mitchell house then headed to the Tarzan swing
10.30pm Luke takes the dog for her last walk of the evening.
10.39pm Judy sends a text to Lukes phone, Right Toad, say goodnight toLuke. Thats you grounded for another week.
10.40pm Luke phones Judy to say he hasnt seen Jodi all night. Judy says she will call round Jodis friends. Luke returns to the house and tells his mother what Judy has said.
10.49pm Judy calls back to say Jodi is nowhere to be found, and she is calling the police. Luke says he will go up the path to look for Jodi, and if he doesnt find her, he will make his way to Judys house to decide what to do next. (This story was later changed to claim that Luke had agreed to meet the other members of the search party at the path.)
10.51pm Luke leaves the house with a torch and the dog. It is still light, but beginning to get dark the sky is blue rather than black)
11.03 11.05pm Luke sees people at the Easthouses end of the path. They do not come towards him, but wait for him to approach. It is the family search party.
11.06pm A call is answered on the landline in Alice Walkers house. The family search party claim they left after this call was taken. If the plan had been for Luke to leave immediately (at 10.49pm) to meet the other members of the search party, why did Judy wait until 6 minutes past 11, a full 15 minutes, before calling them to tell them of this arrangement?
And how did they manage to be at the top of the path before this time?
11.10 11.25pm The search party go back down the path, and find the body.
00.00 Luke is taken to Dalkeith Police station, stripped, medically examined, and samples taken for forensic analysis, then a statement is taken, the whole process lasting until 7am.
00.00-00.15 Forensics officer arrives at the scene, but cannot climb over the wall, so leaves. The body is uncovered.
03.00am Craig Dobbie becomes SIO
4.00am-4.30am The family search party is in Judys house, the police begin to take their statements (more than 4 hours after Luke is taken in, and after they have had the opportunity to speak to other members of the family. Their clothes are not taken for forensic examination, neither are they examined, or have samples taken.)
05.00-05.30 Police photographer/videographer records the scene. Overhanging branches have been cut down to make it easier for him to take pictures. During this time, Dobbie has spoken to the pathologist it appears he took the pathologist to the scene, although this is not absolutely clear from the records, and he was never asked directly. The body is still uncovered.
00.00-08.00am Sometime during this 8 hour period, the body was moved, rolled onto a plastic sheet, and items around it gathered up. There is no record of when this was done, or by whom. The body was left uncovered in the rain for the whole of this period.

A condom, leaking fresh semen, was found yards from the body in the early hours of July 1st. It is known, with absolute certainty, that the person who filled this condom did so behind the wall, close to where Jodi's body was found, on the evening of June 30th, and that when he was finally traced, some three years later, the statement he gave to police was demonstrably untrue. He was never investigated for this murder.

Craig Dobbie claims he became Senior Investigating Officer in charge of the case at around 3am. Why, then, did he allow the body to remain uncovered for another 5 hours? And why, 60 to 90 minutes after he became "in charge" did he not ensure the family search party were treated the same way Luke had been some 4 hours earlier?

The discrepancy between the "sightings" has never been explained. If Andrina Bryson "saw" Jodi on the entrance to the path at 4.48-4.54, how could the other witnesses have seen the mystery man following her on the street going towards the path some 9 minutes later? Remember, there were two independent witnesses to the "mystery man" yet these were dismissed in favour of the one "sighting" by Bryson, even though this meant altering the times.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2023, 02:43:24 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2779 on: April 15, 2023, 02:22:00 PM »
Do you think that you simply repeating a claim with no official source


Sandra Lean is not an ‘official source’
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2780 on: April 15, 2023, 03:34:13 PM »
I believe he received the text message at 10:20pm

I do not believe Sandra Lean aka Jigsawman - her timeline has been manipulated

She’s even claimed the line was ‘engaged’ when the psycho killer phoned the Jones house at 5:32pm  *&^^&

Deflection again. This isn’t about what Dr Lean claimed but court reports published in the media.

“ When Jodi hadn't returned home by 10pm she sent a text message to Mitchell as her daughter's mobile wasn't working. Timed at 10.41pm, it read:'Right, that's you grounded for another two weeks.”

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+JONES+MURDER%3A+THAT%27S+ME+OFF+MUM%3B+Jodi%27s+mother+tells+court+of...-a0125469714

“ Jodi Jones is reported missing by her mother around 10.40pm - 40 minutes after she had been due to return to her home in Parkhead Place, Easthouses, Midlothian. ”

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12401135.timeline-jodi-jones-murder-case/

Are they all wrong and you, who never spent one day in court, right? Who is your source for you 10.20 text?

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2781 on: April 15, 2023, 03:35:05 PM »
Sandra Lean is not an ‘official source’

But the reporters who attended court are.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Bullseye

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2782 on: April 15, 2023, 07:24:42 PM »
I believe he received the text message at 10:20pm

I do not believe Sandra Lean aka Jigsawman - her timeline has been manipulated

She’s even claimed the line was ‘engaged’ when the psycho killer phoned the Jones house at 5:32pm  *&^^&

So am I right in saying you have no actual source of the call being 1020, just that’s what you believe. Sandra saying the call logs show the time of around 1040 is either incorrect or she is lying?? You may not believe Sandra to be an official source but how about the court documents, would that be enough to convince you? It states - At 2241 Judith Jones sent a text to the appellant's mobile phone, indicating that the deceased was again grounded.

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2783 on: April 15, 2023, 07:43:48 PM »
Killer Luke Mitchell: Could David Wilson ‘Suffer’ From Hybristophilia? (Part 176)
👇
https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/04/14/__trashed-2/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2784 on: April 15, 2023, 10:08:22 PM »
Deflection again. This isn’t about what Dr Lean claimed but court reports published in the media.

“ When Jodi hadn't returned home by 10pm she sent a text message to Mitchell as her daughter's mobile wasn't working. Timed at 10.41pm, it read:'Right, that's you grounded for another two weeks.”

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+JONES+MURDER%3A+THAT%27S+ME+OFF+MUM%3B+Jodi%27s+mother+tells+court+of...-a0125469714

“ Jodi Jones is reported missing by her mother around 10.40pm - 40 minutes after she had been due to return to her home in Parkhead Place, Easthouses, Midlothian. ”

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12401135.timeline-jodi-jones-murder-case/

Are they all wrong and you, who never spent one day in court, right? Who is your source for you 10.20 text?

Read the judgement in killer Simon Hall’s appeal - the judges also made whopping mistakes re timings

Judgement on embezzler Seema Misra - more mistakes

It’s a common occurrence - especially in appeal judgements

And it’s these types of errors that people like fraudster Sandra Lean also exploits
« Last Edit: April 15, 2023, 10:12:58 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2785 on: April 15, 2023, 10:53:31 PM »
So am I right in saying you have no actual source of the call being 1020

No

30th June 2003 TIMELINE Of Almost 15 Year Old Scottish Killer Luke Mitchell’s Murder (Part 174)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/04/09/30th-june-2003-timeline-of-14-year-old-killer-luke-mitchells-murder-part-174/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2786 on: April 15, 2023, 10:56:41 PM »
how about the court documents

You should see some of the documents in killer Simon Hall case
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2787 on: April 15, 2023, 10:59:56 PM »

 At 2241 Judith Jones sent a text to the appellant's mobile phone,

It was 10:39pm for years

 *&^^&

Jigsawman aka Sandra Lean

Timeline Monday June 30th 2003.

4.05pm Jodi returns home from school
4.34 4.38pm Series of texts between Lukes phone and Judys phone (Jodis phone was broken, so Jodi borrowed her mothers)
4.39pm (approx) Judy plays a Rod Stewart track which lasts more than 5 minutes to Jodi and Joseph, leaving just 4 minutes for Jodi to get ready and leave in order for Bryson to have spotted her at 4.48
4.48-4.54pm Andrina Bryson sees a girl and a youth on the entrance to the path
4.50-4.55pm [Name removed] leaves on the motorbike to meet [Name removed] at 5pm. It is believed (although not confirmed) that he picked up the bike from [Name removed]s garden and drove along Lady path which runs at right angles to Roans Dyke, before cutting through the woods to meet [Name removed].
4.55pm Luke phones his mothers work and speaks to his grandmother
4.58pm 5.10 (approx) Shane is on the internet, so the home landline is engaged.
5.00pm Two youths on the moped are chased from the tool hire premises at Newbattle, and head towards the Newbattle entrance to the path
5.03pm Luke phones the speaking clock from his mobile
5.03 5.05pm Mystery man is spotted by 2 witnesses following Jodi on the street, on her way to the path. (Spot the obvious mistake according to the Bryson sighting, she was already on the path some 9 minutes earlier) Bryson did not see the mystery man
5.03-5.15pm Somewhere in this time window, the young mum was seen walking up the same street. She saw nothing.
5.03 5.15pm A cyclist travelling up the path from the Newbattle end hears a strangling sound behind the wall. He does not see the boys on the moped, or the mystery man, or Jodi
5.05pm The youths are seen re-starting the bike, which has cut out, at the entrance to the path
5.07pm Corinne captured on CCTV in the local shop on her way home from work
5.15pm Corinne arrives home from work.
5.15pm Jodi is believed to have been murdered at this time
5.15pm The moped is propped against the wall at the V, but the riders are nowhere to be seen
5.30pm Luke leaves the house and walks to the end of the street
5.32pm Luke calls Jodis house, but the line is engaged
5.40pm Luke calls the house again this time Alan Ovens answers. He says he
told Luke Jodi had left to meet him. Luke doesnt remember exactly what was said.
5.40pm Judy and Alan leave the house to go to the cemetery immediately
following the phone call from Luke (therefore Joseph now has no alibi)
5.45 5.50 Three schoolboys see Luke sitting on a wall at the end of his street (they passed him twice, as one of them got a puncture in his bike tyre, and they had to double back.)
5.50 6.05 6 witnesses say they saw a youth hanging around on the Newbattle Road, between the end of Lukes street, and the entrance to the path (although none of them claims to have seen him at the entrance itself.) Luke says he wandered up the street a little way to Barondale Cottages, which is approximately halfway between the end of his street and the entrance to the path, to see if he could see Jodi coming. He told the police this before these witnesses came forward.
6.50-6.55pm Luke phones some male friends to see what they are doing, as Jodi still hasnt shown
7pm Luke phones his mother to tell her if Jodi comes to the house, he is in The Abbey, and to tell Jodi to come there.
9pm After hanging around the abbey for a couple of hours, the boys head for home. Luke goes up to his room and puts on a video of Red dwarf.
10.30pm Luke takes the dog for her last walk of the evening.
10.39pm Judy sends a text to Lukes phone, Right Toad, say goodnight toLuke. Thats you grounded for another week.
10.40pm Luke phones Judy to say he hasnt seen Jodi all night. Judy says she will call round Jodis friends. Luke returns to the house and tells his mother what Judy has said.
10.49pm Judy calls back to say Jodi is nowhere to be found, and she is calling the police. Luke says he will go up the path to look for Jodi, and if he doesnt find her, he will make his way to Judys house to decide what to do next. (This story was later changed to claim that Luke had agreed to meet the other members of the search party at the path.)
10.51pm Luke leaves the house with a torch and the dog. It is still light, but beginning to get dark the sky is blue rather than black)
11.03 11.05pm Luke sees people at the Easthouses end of the path. They do not come towards him, but wait for him to approach. It is the family search party.
11.06pm A call is answered on the landline in Alice Walkers house. The family search party claim they left after this call was taken. If the plan had been for Luke to leave immediately (at 10.49pm) to meet the other members of the search party, why did Judy wait until 6 minutes past 11, a full 15 minutes, before calling them to tell them of this arrangement?
And how did they manage to be at the top of the path before this time?
11.10 11.25pm The search party go back down the path, and find the body.
00.00 Luke is taken to Dalkeith Police station, stripped, medically examined, and samples taken for forensic analysis, then a statement is taken, the whole process lasting until 7am.
00.00-00.15 Forensics officer arrives at the scene, but cannot climb over the wall, so leaves. The body is uncovered.
03.00am Craig Dobbie becomes SIO
4.00am-4.30am The family search party is in Judys house, the police begin to take their statements (more than 4 hours after Luke is taken in, and after they have had the opportunity to speak to other members of the family. Their clothes are not taken for forensic examination, neither are they examined, or have samples taken.)
05.00-05.30 Police photographer/videographer records the scene. Overhanging branches have been cut down to make it easier for him to take pictures. During this time, Dobbie has spoken to the pathologist it appears he took the pathologist to the scene, although this is not absolutely clear from the records, and he was never asked directly. The body is still uncovered.
00.00-08.00am Sometime during this 8 hour period, the body was moved, rolled onto a plastic sheet, and items around it gathered up. There is no record of when this was done, or by whom. The body was left uncovered in the rain for the whole of this period..

« Last Edit: April 15, 2023, 11:01:59 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2788 on: April 15, 2023, 11:02:13 PM »
Read the judgement in killer Simon Hall’s appeal - the judges also made whopping mistakes re timings

Judgement on embezzler Seema Misra - more mistakes

It’s a common occurrence - especially in appeal judgements

And it’s these types of errors that people like fraudster Sandra Lean also exploits

What are you talking about? These weren’t the judge’s words but the testimony of Jodi’s mum at the trial.
It’s your errors that are the problem. Michael Hickey confessed….except he didn’t….Judith Jones texted Luke Mitchell at 10.20…expect she didn’t etc etc etc. I’m really not sure whether you’re consciously trying to gaslight or simply can’t tell the truth from the lies you obviously want to believe anymore.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean
« Reply #2789 on: April 15, 2023, 11:04:32 PM »
It was 10:39pm for years

 *&^^&

Thing is it was never 10.20.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?