A Persepective The Jury Didn't Get To Hear...You Decide...

[Vertigo Swirl]

You obviously missed my post between Haliwell and a Goth attack suggesting Peter Tobin might have been involved until someone pointed out he was in prison at the time of J J's murder.  Just putting it out there.  Tis a discussion board after all.  I'm now fixed on a Goth attack by unknown other(s) but will let you know if I change my mind.  Goth attack fits the soc imo.

OK.  Were there any reports of Jodi ever being bullied or harassed because of her interest in goth culture?  Were there any reports of other Goths in the area being targetted and murdered in such a brutal fashion? 

[Brietta]

It isn't necessary to have a transcipt of the court proceedings to form an opinion when we have access to a concise summary by way of the CoA hearings:

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=26ab8aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

John Scott QC @ 3.30:

https://www.my5.tv/murder-in-a-small-town-295ba2fb-90ef-4b1a-9465-10617f789c03/season-1/episode-2-7daa9d42-eaf4-4a10-9aa6-b3ea8501ffa6

"Circumstantial evidence is a number of different circumstances which taken on their own might mean little or sometimes nothing but when put together in a particular way point the finger towards the accussed". 

Pointing the finger at someone does not amount to conclusive guilt.

Those links are not to the trial by jury which is the thread topic >A Perspective The Jury Didn't Get To Hear...You Decide...<
I have never seen a transcript of Mitchell's trial ... and it seems evident that neither have you.


Friday 21 January 2005
Teenager Luke Mitchell was found guilty today of the "truly evil" murder of his girlfriend Jodi Jones.

The jury of eight women and seven men convicted the 16-year-old on a majority verdict at the High Court in Edinburgh.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/teenager-convicted-of-jodi-murder-487597.html

[William Wallace]

Just removed lots of blank lines from the above.

William you seem to have this case all mapped out.  Are you able/willing to give us a motive?

Mapped out yes, but it's a theory only of course until such time as new evidence or leads emerge. It might seem bizarre, but the circumstantial case against Mitchell is so flawed in every way including the totally inexplicable absence of his DNA at the scene AND in his house that there's actually nothing that can be described as a fact that links him to the murder. Even the so called link to Manson and the "Black Dahlia" was disproved. Nothing was ever found in his house or on his devices to suggest he had ever liked Manson or even heard of the" Black Dahlia". I definitely believe the wrong person is in jail.

Discussing possible motives would make it too easy to work out who the person (or persons) is that I think may have killed J. I don't have proof, nobody does.....yet, so in case I am wrong I have to refrain from naming them or by implication.

[Brietta]

It isn't necessary to have a transcipt of the court proceedings to form an opinion when we have access to a concise summary by way of the CoA hearings:

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=26ab8aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

John Scott QC @ 3.30:

https://www.my5.tv/murder-in-a-small-town-295ba2fb-90ef-4b1a-9465-10617f789c03/season-1/episode-2-7daa9d42-eaf4-4a10-9aa6-b3ea8501ffa6

"Circumstantial evidence is a number of different circumstances which taken on their own might mean little or sometimes nothing but when put together in a particular way point the finger towards the accussed". 

Pointing the finger at someone does not amount to conclusive guilt.

In my opinion you have started a thread to discuss a topic about which you have little information and no understanding.
Seems to be de rigueur for those promoting murderers.

Where on earth did you dig up that definition of circumstantial evidence from?  Couching it between quotation marks makes it no less risible.

[Paranoid Android]

Discussing possible motives would make it too easy to work out who the person (or persons) is that I think may have killed J. I don't have proof, nobody does.....yet, so in case I am wrong I have to refrain from naming them or by implication.

What an absolute cop-out.

Just state the alleged motive - if you're not naming names, there's no harm done.

Actually, if you have anything solid, you're obliged to report it to the authorities - do that.

Anyone who mutilates a body post mortem surely does so for thrills - it's clearly the case that many murders have been committed because the murderer liked doing it.

How long before you change your mind again?

[mrswah]

In my opinion you have started a thread to discuss a topic about which you have little information and no understanding.
Seems to be de rigueur for those promoting murderers.

Where on earth did you dig up that definition of circumstantial evidence from?  Couching it between quotation marks makes it no less risible.

I would have defined circumstantial evidence the same way as Holly did, so what is the correct definition?

Nobody "promotes murderers", as far as I'm aware, at least, not knowingly, but some of us question convictions.  It's a good thing people do, otherwise MOJ's would never come to light.

[Holly Goodhead]

Those links are not to the trial by jury which is the thread topic >A Perspective The Jury Didn't Get To Hear...You Decide...<
I have never seen a transcript of Mitchell's trial ... and it seems evident that neither have you.


Friday 21 January 2005
Teenager Luke Mitchell was found guilty today of the "truly evil" murder of his girlfriend Jodi Jones.

The jury of eight women and seven men convicted the 16-year-old on a majority verdict at the High Court in Edinburgh.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/teenager-convicted-of-jodi-murder-487597.html

You seem unable or unwilling to accept that the judicial system is not infallible.  Unfortunately miscarriages of justice do happen.  I rather suspect that if we were discussing the case of Stefan Kiszko before his conviction was rightfully overturned you along with others here would be siding with the prosecution.

With regard to the tabloids overuse of the word evil, which you seem fond of repeating, I refer you to Prof Simon Baron-Cohen's take on the word:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq_nCTGSfWE

[Holly Goodhead]

In my opinion you have started a thread to discuss a topic about which you have little information and no understanding.
Seems to be de rigueur for those promoting murderers.

Where on earth did you dig up that definition of circumstantial evidence from?  Couching it between quotation marks makes it no less risible.

May I suggest you reread the post you refer to above.  I provided the link, along with the time, to QC John Scott's explanation of circumstantial evidence which I transcribed verbatim from 'Murder in a Small Town'.  If you find it risible then I suggest you take it up with him:

https://johnscottqc.co.uk/about

[Holly Goodhead]

I would have defined circumstantial evidence the same way as Holly did, so what is the correct definition?

Nobody "promotes murderers", as far as I'm aware, at least, not knowingly, but some of us question convictions.  It's a good thing people do, otherwise MOJ's would never come to light.

I can't take credit for the explanation.  I simply transcribed it verbatim from QC John Scott's input to 'Murder in a Small Town':

John Scott QC @ 3.30:

https://www.my5.tv/murder-in-a-small-town-295ba2fb-90ef-4b1a-9465-10617f789c03/season-1/episode-2-7daa9d42-eaf4-4a10-9aa6-b3ea8501ffa6

"Circumstantial evidence is a number of different circumstances which taken on their own might mean little or sometimes nothing but when put together in a particular way point the finger towards the accused".

https://johnscottqc.co.uk/about

[Holly Goodhead]

Mapped out yes, but it's a theory only of course until such time as new evidence or leads emerge. It might seem bizarre, but the circumstantial case against Mitchell is so flawed in every way including the totally inexplicable absence of his DNA at the scene AND in his house that there's actually nothing that can be described as a fact that links him to the murder. Even the so called link to Manson and the "Black Dahlia" was disproved. Nothing was ever found in his house or on his devices to suggest he had ever liked Manson or even heard of the" Black Dahlia". I definitely believe the wrong person is in jail.

Discussing possible motives would make it too easy to work out who the person (or persons) is that I think may have killed J. I don't have proof, nobody does.....yet, so in case I am wrong I have to refrain from naming them or by implication.

I suspect as a Goth LM did enjoy listening to Marilyn Manson music.  Given the number of views on youtube he seems rather popular: 186,076,769

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvVdTlA23w

I've included a couple of tracks on my playlist as he does covers for some of my fave 80's tracks 

How on earth can anyone be condemned for enjoying listening to the music of a popular musician with global appeal?

Scottish schoolgirl, Nicola Ann Raphael, committed suicide after enduring years of bullying because she dressed in a goth style.  According to the following, shortly after her death she had been due to attend a Marilyn Mason concert and MM was seen at the concert comforting her mother. 

I know Scots are intolerant over allegiances to football clubs: Celtic v Rangers but hadn't appreciated it extends to choice of music too. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Nicola_Ann_Raphael

[John]

I can't take credit for the explanation.  I simply transcribed it verbatim from QC John Scott's input to 'Murder in a Small Town':

John Scott QC @ 3.30:

https://www.my5.tv/murder-in-a-small-town-295ba2fb-90ef-4b1a-9465-10617f789c03/season-1/episode-2-7daa9d42-eaf4-4a10-9aa6-b3ea8501ffa6

"Circumstantial evidence is a number of different circumstances which taken on their own might mean little or sometimes nothing but when put together in a particular way point the finger towards the accused".

https://johnscottqc.co.uk/about

Or can mean something completely different.  Did Scott explain that part?

[Myster]

I suspect as a Goth LM did enjoy listening to Marilyn Manson music.  Given the number of views on youtube he seems rather popular: 186,076,769

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvVdTlA23w

I've included a couple of tracks on my playlist as he does covers for some of my fave 80's tracks 

How on earth can anyone be condemned for enjoying listening to the music of a popular musician with global appeal?

Scottish schoolgirl, Nicola Ann Raphael, committed suicide after enduring years of bullying because she dressed in a goth style.  According to the following, shortly after her death she had been due to attend a Marilyn Mason concert and MM was seen at the concert comforting her mother. 

I know Scots are intolerant over allegiances to football clubs: Celtic v Rangers but hadn't appreciated it extends to choice of music too. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Nicola_Ann_Raphael

Popular musician!!!... What a complete pile of poo!!!  Some people will listen to any old tripe!  You need your ears syringing, Holly Gothhead.

[faithlilly]

Or can mean something completely different.  Did Scott explain that part?

Such as?

[Brietta]

You seem unable or unwilling to accept that the judicial system is not infallible.  Unfortunately miscarriages of justice do happen.  I rather suspect that if we were discussing the case of Stefan Kiszko before his conviction was rightfully overturned you along with others here would be siding with the prosecution.

With regard to the tabloids overuse of the word evil, which you seem fond of repeating, I refer you to Prof Simon Baron-Cohen's take on the word:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq_nCTGSfWE

I find the due process of the law courts preferable to the conspiracy theories rampant on the internet based on no information, misinformation and misunderstanding where the accused does not have a voice and there is no right of appeal.

None of that is applicable to Mitchell's conviction but it most certainly is for those who have had nooses put over their heads by the ignorant lieges of the kangaroo courts of the internet.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I suspect as a Goth LM did enjoy listening to Marilyn Manson music.  Given the number of views on youtube he seems rather popular: 186,076,769

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvVdTlA23w

I've included a couple of tracks on my playlist as he does covers for some of my fave 80's tracks 

How on earth can anyone be condemned for enjoying listening to the music of a popular musician with global appeal?

Scottish schoolgirl, Nicola Ann Raphael, committed suicide after enduring years of bullying because she dressed in a goth style.  According to the following, shortly after her death she had been due to attend a Marilyn Mason concert and MM was seen at the concert comforting her mother. 

I know Scots are intolerant over allegiances to football clubs: Celtic v Rangers but hadn't appreciated it extends to choice of music too. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Nicola_Ann_Raphael

That sounds a bit racist to me.