Author Topic: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"  (Read 163021 times)

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Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #195 on: June 30, 2023, 06:52:35 PM »
[quote author=KenMore link=topic=12241.msg705951#msg705951 date=1686248228
It would seem the pro-LM camp consider that every single witness (apart from LM & CM) has lied, and that police corruption and media input were to blame without considering the totality of evidence that convicted him.
[/quote]
Donald Findlay made it clear that he did not think that Andrina Bryson was lying, and I agree.  I think that Mrs. Walsh might have lied about not showing Ms. Fleming the newspaper with Luke's photograph, but she may simply have misremembered the incident.

Offline Chris_Halkides

Lack of resemblance between the accused and the perpetrator
« Reply #196 on: July 06, 2023, 12:25:33 AM »
On . 367 of the book Witness for the Defense, Dr. Elizabeth Loftus and Katherine Ketcham wrote:
"In a classic text on the subject, Convicting the Innocent, legal scholar Edwin M. Borchard presents sixty-five cases of "erroneous criminal convictions of innocent people." In twenty-nine of these cases, or approximately 45 percent, mistaken eyewitness identification was responsible for the conviction. Borchard concludes: "These cases illustrate the fact that the emotional balance of the victim or eyewitness is so disturbed by his extraordinary experience that his powers of perception become distorted and his identification is frequently most untrustworthy"

"Misidentifications are often blamed on the fact that the real criminal bears a close resemblance to the wrongly identified person. But in the twenty-nine cases in which mistaken eyewitness identification was responsible for the wrongful conviction, Borchard reports these facts:"...in eight of these cases the wrongfully accused person and the really guilty criminal bore not the slightest resemblance to each other, whereas in twelve other cases, the resemblance, while fair, was still not at all close. In only two cases can the resemblance be called striking."

I was initially under the impression that erroneous eyewitness acccusations are frequently made against people who look similar to the actual perpetrator.  The Jennifer Thompson/Ronald Cotton case comes to mind as a good example.  This turns out to be true only infrequently.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Lack of resemblance between the accused and the perpetrator
« Reply #197 on: July 06, 2023, 01:40:36 AM »
On . 367 of the book Witness for the Defense, Dr. Elizabeth Loftus and Katherine Ketcham wrote:
"In a classic text on the subject, Convicting the Innocent, legal scholar Edwin M. Borchard presents sixty-five cases of "erroneous criminal convictions of innocent people." In twenty-nine of these cases, or approximately 45 percent, mistaken eyewitness identification was responsible for the conviction. Borchard concludes: "These cases illustrate the fact that the emotional balance of the victim or eyewitness is so disturbed by his extraordinary experience that his powers of perception become distorted and his identification is frequently most untrustworthy"

"Misidentifications are often blamed on the fact that the real criminal bears a close resemblance to the wrongly identified person. But in the twenty-nine cases in which mistaken eyewitness identification was responsible for the wrongful conviction, Borchard reports these facts:"...in eight of these cases the wrongfully accused person and the really guilty criminal bore not the slightest resemblance to each other, whereas in twelve other cases, the resemblance, while fair, was still not at all close. In only two cases can the resemblance be called striking."

I was initially under the impression that erroneous eyewitness acccusations are frequently made against people who look similar to the actual perpetrator.  The Jennifer Thompson/Ronald Cotton case comes to mind as a good example.  This turns out to be true only infrequently.

What are the names of the 65 cases?

Loftus called Tim Hennis’s eye witnesses two of the worst eye witness iDs she had ever seen.

How did that turn out for her?

Tim Hennis currently sits on military death row

While Elizabeth “I don’t know how I let that line slip by’ Loftus still teaches Hennis’s case like the DNA never happened and he didn’t get convicted via a miltary court
« Last Edit: July 06, 2023, 01:46:47 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Lack of resemblance between the accused and the perpetrator
« Reply #198 on: July 07, 2023, 03:31:18 AM »
What are the names of the 65 cases?
Why not read Mr. Borchard's book for yourself?

The Hennis case is unusual in that Mr. Raupach could pass for Mr. Hennis's younger brother.  It may be the other eyewitness that Dr. Loftus thought was bad.  The forensic evidence in the Hennis case could not have been stored in accordance with DNA protocols because DNA profiling was just in its infancy at the time of the trial.

Offline Chris_Halkides

Recommendations from Canada
« Reply #199 on: July 07, 2023, 03:40:20 AM »
https://www.millerthomson.com/assets/files/article_attachments/Wrongful_Convictions_in_Canada.pdf

Here are two quotes that come from a document on wrongful convictions in Canada.

"When interviewing alibi witnesses, they should not be cross-examined, it should not be suggested to them that they are mistaken, and they should not be influenced to change their position although it is appropriate for police to instruct them that it is essential they tell the truth and the consequences of failing to do so (Sophonow)."

A judge had this to say:  "I am disturbed that [the witness] is asked to close her eyes and imagine she’s watching a movie. The interrogation encourages her to engage in speculation and imagine herself in various places. I find the nature of the questions and the circumstances under which they were made, shocking...[the investigator] encourages her to imagine a story. It is an atmosphere ideal for implanting false memories.72"

This sounds similar to what Shane was asked to do by the FLO.  Eyewitness identifications are treated in several places in this document, including a section that starts on page 44.  On page 47 the report states, "The Crown should never show the witness an isolated photograph or image of the accused during the interview."
« Last Edit: July 07, 2023, 03:58:54 AM by Chris_Halkides »

Offline Nicholas

Re: Recommendations from Canada
« Reply #200 on: July 07, 2023, 03:19:04 PM »
This sounds similar to what Shane was asked to do by the FLO

Publish Shane Mitchell’s witness statements
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Lack of resemblance between the accused and the perpetrator
« Reply #201 on: July 07, 2023, 03:20:40 PM »
Why not read Mr. Borchard's book for yourself?

Again what are the names of the 65 cases?

List them
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #202 on: July 08, 2023, 11:14:15 PM »
Nicholas,

I will not do your homework for you.  Instead, I will refer you to a couple of examples of erroneous eyewitness testimony upthread, cases in which the suspect did not resemble the actual perpetrator.  One is the Charles Flores case, and the other is the Jerome White case.

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #203 on: July 08, 2023, 11:16:24 PM »
https://www.innocencecanada.com/exonerations/thomas-sophonow/
"Moreover, when Mr. Doerksen first attended a line-up that included Thomas [Sophonow], he did not identify anyone – including Thomas – as the killer whom he had pursued. Two days later, however, Mr. Doerksen coincidentally saw Thomas while they were both in the Public Safety Building. By that time, Mr. Doerksen had read a newspaper that contained Thomas’ picture. He came to believe that Thomas actually was the person he had seen fleeing the donut shop, even though his appearance was essentially the same as it had been during the line-up. At the Inquiry, Dr. Loftus explained that as time passes, people not only forget information – they also become more susceptible to forming false recollections as a result of new information that they learned after the event. Furthermore, we now know that in 1982, Mr. Doerksen was not able to see well at night or in poor lighting conditions.[21]

"Furthermore, two of the Crown’s witnesses identified Thomas after being shown a photo line-up in which his picture stood out dramatically from the others. As Justice Cory put it in the Inquiry report, “The differences in Thomas Sophonow’s pictures are such that it might just as well have carried a notation saying, ‘here I am.’” As a result, this photo line-up was “startlingly unfair.” And finally, two of the witnesses who testified at trial that Thomas was the killer had not in fact been able to identify him during the live line-up that they observed. Rather, both witnesses merely thought that he was the best match as compared to the other people in the line-up. The officer conducting one of these line-ups made the situation worse by informing the witness that he had indeed picked out the current suspect, thereby strengthening his confidence in his incorrect identification. Given this incredible range of problems with the eyewitness testimony used to convict Thomas on two occasions, it is perhaps not surprising that a miscarriage of justice occurred.[22]" Link

Two points of comparison between Canada's Thomas Sophonow and Scotland's Luke Mitchell are worth emphasizing. One is that seeing a suspect in a newspaper photo increases the chances that the eyewitness will transplant his or her image on the memory of the crime. Two is that photo lineups are not infrequently constructed in such a way as to point to the suspect.

https://www.millerthomson.com/assets/files/article_attachments/Wrongful_Convictions_in_Canada.pdf
"The alibi witnesses should not be subjected to cross-examination or suggestions by the police that they are mistaken. The alibi witnesses should be treated with respect and courtesy. They should not be threatened or intimidated or influenced to change their position. However, I agree that it is appropriate for the police to instruct the witnesses that it is essential that they tell the truth and that a statement can be used as proof of its contents. The witnesses should be advised that they should be careful to tell the truth and of the consequences of a failure to do so."

This is one of the recommendations of the commission which reviewed the wrongful conviction of Thomas Sophonow in Canada. The contrast between this recommendation and how Shane and Corinne Mitchell were treated is stark.

Offline Chris_Halkides

Eyewitness misidentifications
« Reply #204 on: July 11, 2023, 04:13:24 AM »
On p. 68 of the book Convicting the Innocent, Professor Brandon L. Garrett wrote, “I was surprised at how often it emerged at trial that exonerees did not resemble the initial descriptions of the culprit.  In unusual cases like Willie Jackson’s, a misidentification was understandable: the true culprit was his brother, who looked like him.  However, in 62% (100 of 161 cases), the exonerees looked very different from the initial description.  Witnesses had descried culprits with major differences from the exonerees in hair, facial hair, height, weight, scars, tattoos, piercings, teeth, and eyes.”

Offline Chris_Halkides

recording alibi witnesses
« Reply #205 on: July 15, 2023, 06:14:05 PM »
I previously brought up wrongful convictions in Canada. From what I understand both the commissioner who wrote the report on Guy Morin and the commissioner who wrote the report on Thomas Sophonow made recommendations. Among the seven recommendations concerning alibi defenses is this:

7. It is essential that any further interviews of Crown witnesses following the disclosure of the alibi evidence should as well be videotaped or, if that is impossible, audiotaped. Every portion of the interview should be transcribed. Any statement alleged to have been made by the witness and which does not appear on the tape recording should be deemed to be inadmissible.

I wish that I could hear how FLO Michelle Lindsey interviewed Shane Mitchell because Sandra Lean described this interview in a way that leaves me with grave doubts about Ms. Lindsey's competence and objectivity.

Offline Nicholas

Re: recording alibi witnesses
« Reply #206 on: July 15, 2023, 10:10:32 PM »
I wish that I could hear how FLO Michelle Lindsey interviewed Shane Mitchell because Sandra Lean described this interview in a way that leaves me with grave doubts about Ms. Lindsey's competence and objectivity.

Shane Mitchell has never raised any concerns!
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

Re: recording alibi witnesses
« Reply #207 on: July 15, 2023, 11:25:25 PM »
Shane Mitchell has never raised any concerns!

The judge at trial did.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: recording alibi witnesses
« Reply #208 on: July 16, 2023, 01:46:01 PM »
The judge at trial did.
Can you elaborate on this?  On page 305 Sandra Lean wrote, "In court Shane tried very hard to explain that it was she [FLO Lindsay] who was the single most influential factor in interfering with his recall--she would not accept any of his answers to her initial questioning, telling him that they were 'not good enough' or that she 'couldn't accept that.'...She then went on to literally plant pictures in Shane's mind--'See it in your mind's eye, Shane, picture this...' right at the beginning of the investigation."
EDT
I came across additional passages from Sandra Lean's book that bear on the general topic of Shane's statements (pp. 318 and 319).

"Shane originally told investigators he was looking at car sites-the computer records demonstrated that the links to pornographic sites each connected for a few seconds, indicating that they were, almost certainly, pop-ups."

"Prior to the introduction of the photographs, Shane argued repeatedly that investigators would not accept his answers, that they were putting words into his mouth and altering the responses that he gave them. He told the court that he did see Luke when he (Shane) came down for tea, but the police would not believe him because his had not said so in his first statement...His first statements said that he came through the front door, yelled "Hello" to someone." (underlining in original)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2023, 05:51:15 PM by Chris_Halkides »

Offline Chris_Halkides

2021 Wixted paper
« Reply #209 on: July 22, 2023, 03:37:29 PM »
Wixted, J. T., Wells, G. L., Loftus, E. F., & Garrett, B. L. (2021). Test a Witness’s Memory of a Suspect Only Once. Psychological Science in the Public Interest, 22(1_suppl), 1S-18S. https://doi.org/10.1177/15291006211026259

"Recommendation 1 from Wells et al. (2020) is relevant. The recommendation is to conduct, before the lineup, an interview in which the witness is instructed to avoid attempting to identify the culprit on his or her own. If the witness has already done so and has encountered the suspect’s photo (e.g., on social media), thereby contaminating memory before the first official test, it is also important to document that fact."

In my opinion this is pertinent both to Ms. Walsh and to Ms. Fleming.  I do not question that Ms. Walsh was trying to help the investigation by showing the newspaper to Ms. Fleming, but it was poor judgement at the time, and it looks worse in retrospect.