"Laughable eyewitness testimony"

[Joe Blogs]

Have you ever looked into how many individuals who have subsequently had their convictions quashed have either been refused leave to appeal that conviction or lost their appeal?

Yes, thats a good point, Faith, very few people have found it plain sailing overturning their convictions.

[Kenmair]

Yes, thats a good point, Faith, very few people have found it plain sailing overturning their convictions.

Do you have any stats that show quashed convictions in Scottish murder cases, say from the past 20 years? The only one I can think of is Joe Steele but you might know more?

The reason it's not plain sailing is because they are highly probably guilty. There hasn't been a shred of evidence in 20 years to prove LM not guilty.

[Joe Blogs]

Do you have any stats that show quashed convictions in Scottish murder cases, say from the past 20 years? The only one I can think of is Joe Steele but you might know more?

The reason it's not plain sailing is because they are highly probably guilty. There hasn't been a shred of evidence in 20 years to prove LM not guilty.

The LM case is similar to the Jeremy Bamber case, Jim, there was so little evidence to prove them guilty that it logically follows there can be little evidence to prove them innocent! What would it be based on?
There was certainly no forensic evidence linking either to the scene of their alleged crime!

[Kenmair]

The LM case is similar to the Jeremy Bamber case, Jim, there was so little evidence to prove them guilty that it logically follows there can be little evidence to prove them innocent! What would it be based on?
There was certainly no forensic evidence linking either to the scene of their alleged crime!

That's not what I asked, I'm asking about Scottish MOJ murder cases. What are the stats etc?
There have been many murder convictions based solely on circumstantial evidence, some even without a body.
It's a bad case of cherry picking on your part while ignoring the large amount of circumstantial evidence and witness statements used in court. I'm not familiar with Bamber or wish to compare him to LM.

[Vertigo Swirl]

The LM case is similar to the Jeremy Bamber case, Jim, there was so little evidence to prove them guilty that it logically follows there can be little evidence to prove them innocent! What would it be based on?
There was certainly no forensic evidence linking either to the scene of their alleged crime!

Interesting.  Your number one ally on this forum believes JB is definitely guilty, how can that be?

[Joe Blogs]

That's not what I asked, I'm asking about Scottish MOJ murder cases. What are the stats etc?
There have been many murder convictions based solely on circumstantial evidence, some even without a body.
It's a bad case of cherry picking on your part while ignoring the large amount of circumstantial evidence and witness statements used in court. I'm not familiar with Bamber or wish to compare him to LM.

Bamber has had a submission sitting with the CCRC since 2021, Jim.
A decision is expected at any moment, it may even be in the papers if he gets a referral.
As for Scottish MOJ stats, I haven't the foggiest!

[Joe Blogs]

Interesting.  Your number one ally on this forum believes JB is definitely guilty, how can that be?

Who, Faith?

[Kenmair]

As for Scottish MOJ stats, I haven't the foggiest!

I'm not interested in Bamber. If you haven't the foggiest about Scottish MOJ why are you commenting about it? You've stated it isn't plain sailing so I'm curious who you are referring to? (Scottish only).

[faithlilly]

Do you have any stats that show quashed convictions in Scottish murder cases, say from the past 20 years? The only one I can think of is Joe Steele but you might know more?

The reason it's not plain sailing is because they are highly probably guilty. There hasn't been a shred of evidence in 20 years to prove LM not guilty.

Kimberley Hainey, John Jenkins, Ineta Dzinguviene to name a few.

Proving there’s been a miscarriage of justice isn’t plain sailing because the judiciary hate to admit that the legal system is flawed.

The evidence that Luke was convicted on is enough to shed doubt on his guilt.

[Kenmair]

Kimberley Hainey, John Jenkins, Ineta Dzinguviene to name a few.

Proving there’s been a miscarriage of justice isn’t plain sailing because the judiciary hate to admit that the legal system is flawed.

The evidence that Luke was convicted on is enough to shed doubt on his guilt.

I'll have a look at those cases you mentioned.
I believe LM was convicted on strong circumstantial evidence so we'll have to disagree on that. His legal position remains guilty as no one has progressed his case an inch in 20+ years and he has failed his parole.

[Joe Blogs]

Kimberley Hainey, John Jenkins, Ineta Dzinguviene to name a few.

Proving there’s been a miscarriage of justice isn’t plain sailing because the judiciary hate to admit that the legal system is flawed.

The evidence that Luke was convicted on is enough to shed doubt on his guilt.

Thanks Faith, Ken wont get one over on you!

[faithlilly]

I'm not interested in Bamber. If you haven't the foggiest about Scottish MOJ why are you commenting about it? You've stated it isn't plain sailing so I'm curious who you are referring to? (Scottish only).

Why only Scotland? Every legal system has flaws that’s why miscarriages of justice occur all over the world. Do you honestly think that it’s easier to get a conviction overturned in Scotland than, let’s say, anywhere else in the U.K? That Scottish judges are more willing to admit that makes were made than English judges?

[faithlilly]

I'll have a look at those cases you mentioned.
I believe LM was convicted on strong circumstantial evidence so we'll have to disagree on that. His legal position remains guilty as no one has progressed his case an inch in 20+ years and he has failed his parole.

Luke was convicted by a majority decision which suggests that the circumstantial evidence wasn’t as strong as you suggest.

As to moving Luke’s case forward, Stephen Downing was in prison for 27 years after two appeals were turned down. The jury found him guilty by a unanimous verdict. He wasn’t even considered for parole. His conviction was unsafe.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Who, Faith?

Correct.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Luke was convicted by a majority decision which suggests that the circumstantial evidence wasn’t as strong as you suggest.

As to moving Luke’s case forward, Stephen Downing was in prison for 27 years after two appeals were turned down. The jury found him guilty by a unanimous verdict. He wasn’t even considered for parole. His conviction was unsafe.

Not a good example.  After a long and extensive re-investigation following his release -
“After failing to link any other person with the murder, and unable to eliminate Downing as the suspect, the police declared the case closed and said they were not looking for anyone else.[16] Even though Downing remained the prime suspect, under the "double jeopardy" rules in place at the time a suspect could not be re-arrested and charged with a crime they had previously been acquitted of.[4] The police said that, had the law been different, they would have applied to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to again charge Downing with the murder.[4] The findings of the investigation led to public doubts over whether he should have been released.[5]”