Author Topic: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner  (Read 98301 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #240 on: March 18, 2022, 04:29:42 PM »
So a newspaper report was being quoted by you as a factual account of why the Portuguese investigation into Madeleine's disappearance was reopened? Why not just admit that was your source?
Why don't you give us the facts surrounding the re-opening of the Madeleine case by the Portuguese?  Remember it could only be re-opened with the discovery of new evidence.  What do you suppose that was?  The discovery of a discarded hypodermic syringe covered in Kate McCann's fingerprints?  An audio recording of Gerry telling Dave which bin he put the body in?  What exactly? 
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #241 on: March 18, 2022, 04:36:56 PM »
You do know that the BKA isn't represented by the spokesman for the Braunschweig prosecutor's office?

There are not two german investigations...theres one.....it involves the BKA. Wolters os spokesman for that investigation


Offline Brietta

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #242 on: March 18, 2022, 05:11:27 PM »
So a newspaper report was being quoted by you as a factual account of why the Portuguese investigation into Madeleine's disappearance was reopened? Why not just admit that was your source?

You are mistaken.  You supplied the link - not me.  But given the fact that the Policia Judiciaria famously do not make press releases as a matter of course, haven't we discovered that information given unattributed and unofficially to the media is the norm.



Not quite what our expectations are.
"But both sides of the investigation are at relatively early stages, with much work remaining to be done," said Mark Rowley, assistant commissioner for Specialist Crime and Operations at London's Metropolitan Police.

"This new momentum is encouraging, but we still have a way to go, and as with all major investigations, not all lines of enquiry that look promising will yield results," said Rowley.

British police said this month they had received hundreds of calls following a new television appeal that suggested Madeleine was snatched in a planned abduction and that they wanted to trace a number of men, including some thought to be either Scandinavian or German.


https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2013/1102/Madeleine-McCann-A-new-kidnapping-suspect-emerges-in-2007-case

As we know the Portuguese and British police followed different lines of inquiry.  The Portuguese followed Euclides Monteiro while the Brits took a more eclectic approach.
Which incidentally included Scandinavian or German men within their reckoning.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #243 on: March 18, 2022, 06:27:50 PM »
Grasping. At. Straws.  First you claim the Met were instructed only to investigate abduction to the exclusion of any other possibility, now you're suggesting that the BKA have not familiarized themselves with the Madeleine case files.  I guess this is what happens when you run out of any cogent argument (not that you had much of that to start with IMO).

I'm not sure at all what sort of reliance the BKA might have placed in the original files.  Did they really have to - apart from double checking areas of interest to them.
Remember they really were coming with fresh eyes to what was a new investigation to them in 2017.  Which in effect was the same for SY and the PJ.  Although both these forces had access to the groundwork undertaken when the Brits took up the investigation and the Portuguese reopened Madeleine's case in 2013.

The BKA were very much the new kids on the block;  I don't know if they would have found it necessary to go back to the original files particularly as much of the work had already been carried out.

Madeleine McCann: Police using phone data to track EVERYONE who was in Praia da Luz on night girl disappeared
In tracing thousands of mobile numbers, 41 potential suspects have already been identified - 15 believed to be Britons

ByTom PettiforCrime Editor
4 Oct 2013 UPDATED00:27, 4 Oct 2013

Scotland Yard detectives hope to solve Madeleine McCann’s disappearance by using phone data in the biggest hunt for witnesses so far.

They are painstakingly tracing thousands of mobile numbers belonging to people from 31 countries in Praia da Luz, on the night the three-year-old vanished.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-police-using-phone-2337080
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #244 on: March 18, 2022, 06:37:49 PM »
I'm not sure at all what sort of reliance the BKA might have placed in the original files.  Did they really have to - apart from double checking areas of interest to them.
Remember they really were coming with fresh eyes to what was a new investigation to them in 2017.  Which in effect was the same for SY and the PJ.  Although both these forces had access to the groundwork undertaken when the Brits took up the investigation and the Portuguese reopened Madeleine's case in 2013.

The BKA were very much the new kids on the block;  I don't know if they would have found it necessary to go back to the original files particularly as much of the work had already been carried out.

Madeleine McCann: Police using phone data to track EVERYONE who was in Praia da Luz on night girl disappeared
In tracing thousands of mobile numbers, 41 potential suspects have already been identified - 15 believed to be Britons

ByTom PettiforCrime Editor
4 Oct 2013 UPDATED00:27, 4 Oct 2013

Scotland Yard detectives hope to solve Madeleine McCann’s disappearance by using phone data in the biggest hunt for witnesses so far.

They are painstakingly tracing thousands of mobile numbers belonging to people from 31 countries in Praia da Luz, on the night the three-year-old vanished.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-police-using-phone-2337080
Ah but if only they’d read Martin Grime’s report and the Gaspar Statement things could have been oh so different! @)(++(*
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Ms Para glider

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #245 on: March 18, 2022, 07:00:56 PM »
One more study. This one is entitled "Patterns of prior offending by child abductors" and the study sample involves 750 child abductors. What is interesting in this one is it details every single offence that each perpetrator was previously arrested for (even if that specific offence was only committed by one person in the study) so it gives a full picture. It also splits the offenders history out depending on the outcome of the abduction; whether the child was later found alive or whether they were killed/never found.

Focussing only on the cases where the victims were never found (or were murdered), these were the top 5 offences seen in the offenders' criminal histories:

Assault   43%
Burglary   39%
Theft   38%
Sex offences (forcible)   30%
Drug offences   24%

CB has convictions for all of these.

Interestingly, only 7% of these offenders had a prior arrest for murder (14th on the list) and 13% had a prior arrest for kidnapping (9th on the list). None of them appear to have ever been arrested for a people-trafficking offence (just in case anyone is interested).

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Demographic-characteristics-of-child-abduction-offenders-by-outcome-N-750_tbl1_26776417


Offline Ms Para glider

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #246 on: March 18, 2022, 07:09:07 PM »
Ah but if only they’d read Martin Grime’s report and the Gaspar Statement things could have been oh so different! @)(++(*

Don't forget Arlindo, the time-travelling chef!

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #247 on: March 18, 2022, 07:22:35 PM »
Don't forget Arlindo, the time-travelling chef!
He had no reason to lie therefore his statement must be accurate. (&^&
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #248 on: March 18, 2022, 07:53:11 PM »
I find gunits posts at a similar level to those she made claiming smoking does not cause cancer.

Offline G-Unit

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #249 on: March 18, 2022, 08:04:48 PM »
(&^&
Are you suggesting that the BKA are unable to read English?

Are you really suggesting that the German investigators are completely oblivious to the findings and evidence of the original investigation? Is that honestly what you are trying to say?

I've got no idea whether the Germans have bothered with the PJ files or not. I asked the question because you insinuated that they may have. I have no reason to believe that the people involved can read and understand evidence written in either Portuguese or English. You seem to see the prosecutor and the BKA as interchangeable, but I don't.

According to Jon Clarke, Wolters had neither ownership or sight of the videos and images found at CB's warehouse. They were found and dealt with by Saxony police and Wolters told Clarke to speak to them if he had questions. (page 318 of Clarke's book) I don't think the investigations in Germany are as streamlined as some think they are.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #250 on: March 18, 2022, 08:17:26 PM »
I've got no idea whether the Germans have bothered with the PJ files or not. I asked the question because you insinuated that they may have. I have no reason to believe that the people involved can read and understand evidence written in either Portuguese or English. You seem to see the prosecutor and the BKA as interchangeable, but I don't.

According to Jon Clarke, Wolters had neither ownership or sight of the videos and images found at CB's warehouse. They were found and dealt with by Saxony police and Wolters told Clarke to speak to them if he had questions. (page 318 of Clarke's book) I don't think the investigations in Germany are as streamlined as some think they are.

Wolters doesn't need ownership or sight of thee videos to know what's on them

Where do you think Wolters is getting his information on the progress and the evidence in the investigation.. Where else but from the BKA

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #251 on: March 18, 2022, 08:28:54 PM »
Disappearance of Madeleine
McCANN in Praia da Luz, Portugal,
on 03/05/2007 – call for witnesses
BKA and Braunschweig Public Prosecutor's Office are conducting investigative
proceedings for suspected murder against a German suspect



Does gunit still want to deny the BKA and Wolters are working together

Offline Ms Para glider

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #252 on: March 18, 2022, 09:22:07 PM »
I've got no idea whether the Germans have bothered with the PJ files or not. I asked the question because you insinuated that they may have. I have no reason to believe that the people involved can read and understand evidence written in either Portuguese or English. You seem to see the prosecutor and the BKA as interchangeable, but I don't.

According to Jon Clarke, Wolters had neither ownership or sight of the videos and images found at CB's warehouse. They were found and dealt with by Saxony police and Wolters told Clarke to speak to them if he had questions. (page 318 of Clarke's book) I don't think the investigations in Germany are as streamlined as some think they are.


You have "no idea" if the Germans have bothered to look at the files. That just tells me how naive (or in denial) you are. That you think it's possible they haven't, says it all. The most obvious defence case that the Prosecutor is likely to come up against is the "parents did it" theory. If you believe for a moment that they have not investigated the evidence contributing to this theory, you do not understand what a Prosecutor does.

You say you have "no reason to believe the people involved can read and understand evidence written evidence in Portugese or English".... honestly, I could write an essay on how ignorant and ridiculous that comment is. It almost doesn't deserve a response but I'll humour you and point out that 56% of germans are English speakers. I have to say again though, I'm astounded in your defiance to believe that these investigators must know less than you do.

I don't see the Prosecutor and BKA as interchangeable, because unlike you, I understand what their roles are. However, for the purpose of who the "investigators" in this particular case are, they are in effect interchangeable in this discussion. You keep talking about the BKA as if they are the presiding authority, as if their opinion is of a higher importance than the Prosecutor's office. It's not. The Prosecutor has overriding authority in the case they are investigating. The problem is that you simply do not seem to understand the role of a Prosecutor in Germany. They are the ones who lead the investigation. They are the ones directing the BKA's activitities in THIS PARTICULAR CASE. No, they don't run the entire BKA and Wolters team doesn't have overriding authority over the BKA or investigations taking place in other cases or geographical areas in Germany. But they ARE in charge of the MM case. And the activitities the BKA are undertaking are coordinated by the Braunschweig Prosecutor's office in this case. And all the evidence the BKA have, is passed directly to them. In addition to this evidence, it's worth noting the Prosecutor's office are possibly privy to information from other external agencies that the BKA are not. As well as information uncovered  from their own investigations.

And yes, I've read Jon Clarke’s book. I notice you omitted the part about Jon thinking Wolters was not being genuine about what he claimed not to know. That he thought Wolters was giving him the brush off, on this and other aspects he asked questions about.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2022, 11:01:16 PM by Para2030 »

Offline G-Unit

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #253 on: March 18, 2022, 09:25:04 PM »
Don't forget Arlindo, the time-travelling chef!

Is this off-topic? Yes, and probably deflection too.
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Result = happy posting.
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Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Ms Para glider

Re: The boxes ticked by prime suspect Brueckner
« Reply #254 on: March 18, 2022, 09:44:12 PM »
Is this off-topic? Yes, and probably deflection too.

 (&^&

I'm really getting under your skin aren't I? Good.