Author Topic: Madeleine McCann's parents lose libel case with the European Court of Human Rights  (Read 45669 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Yea I read that on his website.
my point is that after reading the judgement you still think the lawyers were inept whereas the judgement very clearly spells out the reasons that the judges reached their verdict.
It couldn’t be clearer.
Of course the lawyers were inept, it’s as plain as day for the reasons I have spelt out in my previous post.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 07:23:30 AM by Vertigo Swirl »
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Your point appeared to be that CB was an arguido so the parents couldn’t be suspects. That’s patently untrue as Murat was an arguido while the parents were being investigated and before they were made arguidos. They length of time that that was the case is irrelevant.

Further I have no idea what the PJ’s strategy is but is it possible that the parents are still being investigated, until charges are brought against a named individual anything is possible. Lest we forget we were being told that the parents were not suspects when we now know that that’s exactly what they were.
There is not one scintilla (your fave word) of evidence that the McCanns are either police suspects or being investigated by the police so you are simply fantasizing having been taken in by the pronouncements of a gossip and a liar. Now this is off topic so I suggest we leave it there.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Well you have showed no knowledge of the law at all. Your default position on both of the subjects I have debated with you is the lawyers screwed up.
You are also making the assumption that the lawyers hired didn't hire outside expertise to aid with their submission.
Please reread the judgement and comprehend the 5 points the judges raise and it will become clear why the seven judges ruled the way they did and not the way you were convinced they would.
You got it wrong, very, very wrong.
And so, very evidently, did the expert lawyers - how do you explain that?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Has it occurred to any of you that this really isn't all that important?

I can understand why you don't want to discuss it any more. Instead of Amaral and the Portuguese courts being criticised, they were exonerated. The Portuguese courts dealt with the case correctly, and the alleged human rights violations were unfounded. Obviously some people have no interest in discussing what Amaral and the Portuguese courts got right.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline The General

Whats the url of the website sherlock... Perhaps Im incredibly smarter than you realise.. See if you can find it yourself..
I've also emailed a portugues law professor to ask about what the proven in proven facts mean... I don't like any gaps in my knowledge.
Yet you never emailed Martin Grime.
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

I can understand why you don't want to discuss it any more. Instead of Amaral and the Portuguese courts being criticised, they were exonerated. The Portuguese courts dealt with the case correctly, and the alleged human rights violations were unfounded. Obviously some people have no interest in discussing what Amaral and the Portuguese courts got right.
All your posts recently have had a whiff of goad about them, I thought goading was agsinst forum rules?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

And so, very evidently, did the expert lawyers - how do you explain that?

The McCann's lawyers did the best they could with a weak case imo.

Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline The General

Imo you are making an absolute foo
If you read the judgement it highlights exactly why the mccanns felt the SC judgement was unfair....its all there in the judgement you think you've read.
The lawyer has to highlight the relevant articles and MAKE HIS CASE... as to why Portugal has failed.
Let's look at the test case referenced and the summary ruling - Von Hannover v Germany:
Judgment
On 24 June 2004, the Court unanimously ruled that there was a breach of Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights. It accepted that scenes from daily life, involving activities such as engaging in sport, out walking, leaving a restaurant or on holiday were of a purely private nature, but also noted that "photos appearing in the tabloid press are often taken in a climate of continual harassment which induces in the person concerned a very strong sense of intrusion into their private life or even of persecution" and that "the context in which these photos were taken – without the applicant’s knowledge or consent – and the harassment endured by many public figures in their daily lives cannot be fully disregarded".

This ruling is punctuated with opinion. That's their job; using their experience and referencing previous case law, they're asked to preside and make a value judgement i.e. opinion.
Look at how nuanced this judgement is. They've made a distinction between what constitutes intrusion in to a private life based on the behaviour of paparazzi and the context of the activities being undertaken; a far more complex judgement than McCann v Portugal and one that required way more opinion. Both instances photos are taken without consent, but one context breaches privacy when the other doesn't.
The lines are ambiguous, but somebody has to decide at some point.
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

The McCann's lawyers did the best they could with a weak case imo.
They were derelict in their duty if they failed to point out to the McCanns what you (a non-lawyer not versed i. either PT or European law) apparently knew from the outset.  Do you really think the McCanns would have pursued the ECHR appeal if their lawyers had told them there was no grounds for such an appeal?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

It’s bizarre - some people here are enjoying lambasting Davel for getting it wrong but won’t have it that the McCanns’ lawyers got it wrong.  This really does not compute. 
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

It’s bizarre - some people here are enjoying lambasting Davel for getting it wrong but won’t have it that the McCanns’ lawyers got it wrong.  This really does not compute.

And I'm enjoying raining on their parade. They expected to be gloating over the result and did not expect a rational logical argument in return. If Man city played tranmere again I would still predict man city to win.
What cannot be denied is that the McCanns were represented by a general lawyer with what looks like no experience with the ECHR....

Offline The General

It’s bizarre - some people here are enjoying lambasting Davel for getting it wrong but won’t have it that the McCanns’ lawyers got it wrong.  This really does not compute.
Perhaps the McCann's decided to pursue all avenues irrespective of advice; a potential driver being delaying having to pay court costs, but more likely their trademark disdain for counter opinion.
Besides, lawyers operate under instruction.
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline Mr Gray

Yet you never emailed Martin Grime.

Why would I want to... No gaps in my knowledge there.
The alerts are worthless it says so in the files

Offline The General

And I'm enjoying raining on their parade. They expected to be gloating over the result and did not expect a rational logical argument in return. If Man city played tranmere again I would still predict man city to win.
What cannot be denied is that the McCanns were represented by a general lawyer with what looks like no experience with the ECHR....
Let's say that's true, given their retinue of advisors / press agents / benefactors / extended professional circle, the root cause to the supposed failure would surely be the McCanns themselves? Unless, of course, these incomptent, inexperienced lawyers foisted themselves upon them in some way.
None of this washes, I'm afraid. And to use your Man City analogy, Haarland scored all 7 against the Mccann's in an entirely predictable pasting at court.
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline The General

Why would I want to... No gaps in my knowledge there.
The alerts are worthless it says so in the files
More opinion then? You're cherry picking opinion you agree with, but can't get past the cognitive dissonance
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.