Madeleine McCann's parents lose libel case with the European Court of Human Rights

[The General]

Then John will have to decide, which is fine by me.  Just let me know what I am supposed to do.

Just carry on, type with impunity and let the mods decide. They are, after all, de facto guardians of John's reputation by appointment.

[barrier]

Based on my assessment of the evidence I can see no reason to choose abduction as the only lead worthy of investigation. Unless and until definitive evidence is released, I will continue holding the same opinion as the Portuguese prosecutors;

"it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment"
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

If you wish to continue with the halcyon "Groundhog Day" of 2008 please consider yourself to be my guest.

For myself, I prefer to move with the times and by my watch we have now arrived at the year 2022 when after years of investigation the many inadequateness of the inconclusive Portuguese investigation have been addressed.

No its not, Wolters has never said how he thinks his suspect and Madeleine came together.

[Vertigo Swirl]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Murder-Common-Secret-Shocked-Library/dp/184454057X

OK thanks, and what about answering my other questions?

[Brietta]

Sadly, I still believe in The Presumption of Innocence, although God knows why.  I can only guess that it's a personal thing.

The more I read the more perplexed I become.

As for the right of presumption of innocence that Kate and Gerry McCann considered to have been called into question, the ECtHR admits that if the former inspector's book had come out before the investigation of the Public Prosecutor's Office (MP) had ruled out the parents of an alleged involvement in the disappearance of the daughter, The statements of Gonçalo Amaral "could have undermined the presumption of innocence (...), the assessment of the facts."

"This was information about which the public already had extensive knowledge, including before the disclosure of the investigation dossier in the media and the publication of the book," the court refuted.

The judges assumed that the book "undeniably caused anger, anxiety and concern" to Maddie's parents, but reiterated that "it does not appear that the book or the dissemination of the documentary has had a serious impact on the applicants' social relationships or the legitimate search to find their daughter."

"The court found that even assuming that the reputation of the applicants was damaged, this was not due to the argument put forward by the author of the book but to the suspicions expressed against them, which led them to be under investigation during the criminal investigation and generated intense media attention and much controversy," the European Court of Human Rights said.

https://www.dn.pt/sociedade/tribunal-europeu-dos-direitos-humanos-iliba-justica-portuguesa-de-queixa-dos-pais-de-maddie-15180013.html

[Vertigo Swirl]

In that case the evidence was provided. Not in this one as yet.

The evidence for evolution continues to be rejected to this day, and by one of the most notorious McCann sceptics too (how unsurprising!)

[G-Unit]

If you wish to continue with the halcyon "Groundhog Day" of 2008 please consider yourself to be my guest.

For myself, I prefer to move with the times and by my watch we have now arrived at the year 2022 when after years of investigation the many inadequateness of the inconclusive Portuguese investigation have been addressed.

Fine by me. So long as you remember that Amaral and the state of Portugal breached none of the McCann's human rights, much as some have tried to convince people that they did.

[Eleanor]

Just carry on, type with impunity and let the mods decide. They are, after all, de facto guardians of John's reputation by appointment.

I am a Mod.  So much for your understanding of what is going on.

[Vertigo Swirl]

The more I read the more perplexed I become.

As for the right of presumption of innocence that Kate and Gerry McCann considered to have been called into question, the ECtHR admits that if the former inspector's book had come out before the investigation of the Public Prosecutor's Office (MP) had ruled out the parents of an alleged involvement in the disappearance of the daughter, The statements of Gonçalo Amaral "could have undermined the presumption of innocence (...), the assessment of the facts."

"This was information about which the public already had extensive knowledge, including before the disclosure of the investigation dossier in the media and the publication of the book," the court refuted.

The judges assumed that the book "undeniably caused anger, anxiety and concern" to Maddie's parents, but reiterated that "it does not appear that the book or the dissemination of the documentary has had a serious impact on the applicants' social relationships or the legitimate search to find their daughter."

"The court found that even assuming that the reputation of the applicants was damaged, this was not due to the argument put forward by the author of the book but to the suspicions expressed against them, which led them to be under investigation during the criminal investigation and generated intense media attention and much controversy," the European Court of Human Rights said.

https://www.dn.pt/sociedade/tribunal-europeu-dos-direitos-humanos-iliba-justica-portuguesa-de-queixa-dos-pais-de-maddie-15180013.html

It seems pretty straightforward to me.  Amaral's book didn't in the estimation of the court) ruin their reputation anymore than it was already ruined when the PJ (under Amaral's coordinatorship) decide to make them arguidos, whilst simultaneously feeding a load of rubbish stories to the PT media. 

[Wonderfulspam]

If you wish to continue with the halcyon "Groundhog Day" of 2008 please consider yourself to be my guest.

For myself, I prefer to move with the times and by my watch we have now arrived at the year 2022 when after years of investigation the many inadequateness of the inconclusive Portuguese investigation have been addressed.

Yes, yes, & they'll be nailing the abductor any day now, isn't it.

[The General]

No its not, Wolters has never said how he thinks his suspect and Madeleine came together.

This relates to his refusal to interview CB for fear of showing his hand, which could then lead to him filling the gaps and retrofitting. Which, in the cold light of the passing of two years, has been shown to be an utterly bizarre tactic, borne out of a conspicuous lack of evidence and an insecure prosecutor bent on hedging his bets.
He should have taken a leaf from Dr. Amaral's successful playbook and go all in.

[Brietta]

No its not, Wolters has never said how he thinks his suspect and Madeleine came together.

The German Prosecutor is highly unlikely to release evidence into the public domain prior to it being presented in court.

Therefore how on earth do you expect anyone to think you have 'inside information'.  You don't!  You can only rehearse your suppositions, just like everyone else and accept that you do not know what evidence there is against the German prime suspect; except it was sufficient to convince the Portuguese Judiciary to make him arguido.

[Eleanor]

The evidence for evolution continues to be rejected to this day, and by one of the most notorious McCann sceptics too (how unsurprising!)

We are here to breed and only that.  And the larger the gene pool of idiots then the more idiots will be born.  The rest of us will have to try to keep a sense of proportion in the light of the ruling today.  But things ain't looking good.

[barrier]

Much as been made by the press over the time of the ECHR case that should the McCanns lose then they could well need the fund to pay out, can't see any mention of monies in the judgement.

[Wonderfulspam]

No its not, Wolters has never said how he thinks his suspect and Madeleine came together.

Through the window, dummy, that's the link with the Behan case, remember.

[Wonderfulspam]

The German Prosecutor is highly unlikely to release evidence into the public domain prior to it being presented in court.

Therefore how on earth do you expect anyone to think you have 'inside information'.  You don't!  You can only rehearse your suppositions, just like everyone else and accept that you do not know what evidence there is against the German prime suspect; except it was sufficient to convince the Portuguese Judiciary to make him arguido.

But it isn't sufficient to pursue a successful conviction anytime in the foreseeable future though.
I think I might have mentioned that before.