Madeleine McCann's parents lose libel case with the European Court of Human Rights

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Not that I am questioning your veracity but I rather feel that your assertion requires a cite which will enable me to form my own opinion.

I will be obliged if you will provide one.  Thankyou

Have you read the ECHR judgement? I have posted this several times but once again
From the ECHR full judgement:

40. With regard to the facts, referring to the evidence which had been submitted by the parties, the Lisbon Court found the following established:
“...
6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela detected odor marks of human blood and corpse inside the Ocean Club's 5-A apartment.
7. British police dogs 'Eddie' and 'Keela' detected odor marks of human blood and cadaver inside the vehicle rented by the applicants ... after Madeleine disappeared.
(...)

If you feel I have taken something out of context please feel free to read the whole judgement.

[Brietta]

This has been an exceptional legal stitch-up imo.

Who by.... and for what reason would that be.

They are not appealing ......so why would you think that is...

They should never have gone after GA in the first place....I believe they wished they hadnt.

They have publicly announced why they are not appealing the decision.  Did you miss it?

A short precis ::: they don't have to - there is a very active police investigation into Madeleine's case in progress.  When they started this action there was none and the only people looking for Madeleine was them and Amaral was damaging that.

[Wonderfulspam]

They have publicly announced why they are not appealing the decision.  Did you miss it?

A short precis ::: they don't have to - there is a very active police investigation into Madeleine's case in progress.  When they started this action there was none and the only people looking for Madeleine was them and Amaral was damaging that.

And what have you been doing to help find Maddie?

[Mr Gray]

Have you read the ECHR judgement? I have posted this several times but once again
From the ECHR full judgement:

40. With regard to the facts, referring to the evidence which had been submitted by the parties, the Lisbon Court found the following established:
“...
6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela detected odor marks of human blood and corpse inside the Ocean Club's 5-A apartment.
7. British police dogs 'Eddie' and 'Keela' detected odor marks of human blood and cadaver inside the vehicle rented by the applicants ... after Madeleine disappeared.
(...)

If you feel I have taken something out of context please feel free to read the whole judgement.

I've answered it several times.. And discussed it on this forum for several years... The alerts to cadaver are not facts.. Not true.. Lies... My question is how did they get accepted as fact's. Its like saying CB is guilty because HCW said so.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

I've answered it several times.. And discussed it on this forum for several years... The alerts to cadaver are not facts.. Not true.. Lies... My question is how did they get accepted as fact's. Its like saying CB is guilty because HCW said so.

Please understand, in a civil case the threshold is on the balance of possibilities,  in a criminal case its beyond reasonable doubt.
The empirical fact is the civil court of the first instance found it to be established that the alerts were to blood and cadaver. You can't change that. You can disagree with the findings but thats all you can do.

[misty]

This has been an exceptional legal stitch-up imo.

Who by.... and for what reason would that be.

They are not appealing ......so why would you think that is...

They should never have gone after GA in the first place....I believe they wished they hadnt.

It was designed to almost guarantee that the real perpetrator(s) would never be sought, let alone caught. I don't believe GA ever thought the McCanns would be so tenacious in the face of such adversity or that UK police would have launched such a thorough review of the case.
GA should never have written the book. Period. Its contents and his public slurs of them warranted legal action.
Now he has formally been allowed to profit from such slurs - maybe that will actually work against him in the future.
IMO the McCanns have chosen not to appeal because of potential action against Brueckner by BKA within the next few weeks. We have been told that Amaral's actions were never about the money. I wonder how the Portuguese public will view his reputation/honour in the event of Brueckner being convicted of previously unsolved serious crimes which fell under his jurisdiction? Had Brueckner been caught then maybe Madeleine wouldn't have been abducted.

[jassi]

Please understand, in a civil case the threshold is on the balance of possibilities,  in a criminal case its beyond reasonable doubt.
The empirical fact is the civil court of the first instance found it to be established that the alerts were to blood and cadaver. You can't change that. You can disagree with the findings but thats all you can do.

Impotently shakes fist in the face of Authority 

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Impotently shakes fist in the face of Authority 

I tell you, I know how his 12 year old daughter felt. She's obviously the brains in the family.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Impotently shakes fist in the face of Authority 

Isn't that what a Miscarriage Of Justice Forum is all about?  Disagreeing with legal decisions?  do you disapprove of people disagreeing with legal decisions?  Proper lot of little conformists aintcha.

[Wonderfulspam]

It was designed to almost guarantee that the real perpetrator(s) would never be sought, let alone caught. I don't believe GA ever thought the McCanns would be so tenacious in the face of such adversity or that UK police would have launched such a thorough review of the case.
GA should never have written the book. Period. Its contents and his public slurs of them warranted legal action.
Now he has formally been allowed to profit from such slurs - maybe that will actually work against him in the future.
IMO the McCanns have chosen not to appeal because of potential action against Brueckner by BKA within the next few weeks. We have been told that Amaral's actions were never about the money. I wonder how the Portuguese public will view his reputation/honour in the event of Brueckner being convicted of previously unsolved serious crimes which fell under his jurisdiction? Had Brueckner been caught then maybe Madeleine wouldn't have been abducted.

She wasn't.

[barrier]

My point is that the McCanns lawyers obviously believed that there was a reasonable chance that they would win an appeal based presumably on similar reasoning to those on here who believed they would win.  Personally I never claimed to know enough about ECHR law to call it, but if I had, I guess I would have stood a 50/50 chance of being right so I don't think there's much to brag about either way.

At least you're big enough to admit that.

[jassi]

I prefer to gloat rather than brag. So much more satisfying. 

[kizzy]

Please explain why they shouldn't have.  Imagine you are the subject of a bestselling book which claims you committed unspeakable acts - what do you do?

That's my point ......it wouldn't have been the best-selling book if it wasn't for the mccs going after GA.

[barrier]

I disagree. Had the McCanns subsequently been charged with any offences against Madeleine, they could have argued that the book denied them the right to a fair trial. Much of the "evidence" against them has already been leaked by the investigating team under the instruction of the book's author and reinforced by the book. However, if the case had never gone to trial the McCanns would never have been able to legally defend themselves/demonstrate their innocence so they'd remain in perpetual limbo in the absence of the real offender(s) being uncovered. This has been an exceptional legal stitch-up imo.

7 judges of differing nationalities unanimously agreed to the outcome, so the only argument for a legal stitch up would be the McCann's ( lawyers) took the wrong option to the ECHR.

[kizzy]

They have publicly announced why they are not appealing the decision.  Did you miss it?

A short precis ::: they don't have to - there is a very active police investigation into Madeleine's case in progress.  When they started this action there was none and the only people looking for Madeleine was them and Amaral was damaging that.

Amaral was damaging that.

But he wasn't was he.


*****
97. Finally, the Court notes that, after the publication of the book, the applicants continued their media activities. In particular, they made a documentary about their daughter's disappearance and continued to give interviews to the media at international level (see paragraph 40 (paragraphs 68 and 71) above). While the Court understands that the publication of the book undoubtedly caused the applicants anger, anxiety and concern (see paragraph 40 (paragraph 81) above), it does not appear that the book or the broadcasting of the documentary had any serious impact on their social relations or on their continuing legitimate search for their daughter.