Luke Mitchell - All quiet?

[Joe Blogs]

Contacting DH twice on the night of the murder was, I suggest, out of the ordinary at that period in LM's life, since he was with Jodi most evenings then. Another coincidence? I don't think so. I'm surprised ADT never asked DH if it was common for LM to phone him to meet up at that period.

Well David High must have met up with Luke/Jodi quite regular, Mr Apples.
How else would he have known that it was unusual for Jodi to be missing?

[Mr Apples]

Well David High must have met up with Luke/Jodi quite regular, Mr Apples.
How else would he have known that it was unusual for Jodi to be missing?

It seems that DH was one of LM's closest friends at the time, so he probably knew he was with her most nights without actually being in their company (ie, LM telling him in school he was with her and DH seeing them together most nights without actually being in their company). Like I said, I'm surprised ADT never asked DH if it was common for LM to meet up with him during that particular time when LM was dating Jodi.

[Joe Blogs]

It seems that DH was one of LM's closest friends at the time, so he probably knew he was with her most nights without actually being in their company (ie, LM telling him in school he was with her and DH seeing them together most nights without actually being in their company). Like I said, I'm surprised ADT never asked DH if it was common for LM to meet up with him during that particular time when LM was dating Jodi.

Well, you certainly have an answer to everything, Mr Apples!
Anyway, lets go back to what happened after the murder and what was going on in LM mind, if guilty!
OK, Luke has rushed to kill Jodi and indeed she is dead within a good half hour of the last text between them, now what?
Rationally Luke must have thought,     'right ! job done, now to sneak home as soon as possible and dispose of my blood stained clothing, hopefully without being seen or recognized by anyone. I'll shower to get rid of any forensic evidence then phone Jodi's house to say that she hasn't turned up. Yes thats it, brilliant, speed home unseen, shower, dispose of murder clothing then phone Jodi's house! All evidence destroyed and no forensics on me, nothing to tie me to the murder scene, by golly i'm good! You're a genius Luke Muir Mitchell, a genius!!!!'..............
..........'No wait!.. just wait up there a minute, Mitchell! wait up you numbskull !..yes, thats it, thats it! ..why dont I just stroll onto Newbattle Road in my murder clothes for all to see! I could stand there for about an hour to let as many people see what i'm wearing and hopefully remember my face too. Who knows, someone may even pass by who actually knows me, they may even notice any small blood stains on my clothing! Yes, lets give the police a sporting chance too, if Jodi's body is found quickly they might even lift me before I get home.Yes, now i'm talking! That indeed sounds like a plan for sure my son! ..Phew!!! I almost messed up before I got started! What in the name of god was I thinking there, rush home and get cleaned up ASAP? Gee whizz!.. you are a numpty, Muir!!''...............
............
Is this what went through LM mind as he stood over Jodi's body at the locus, Mr Apples?
In hind sight, do you think he made the right decision?
I for one cant fathom out what his plan was!!

[Parky41]

Well of course it had probative value. When evaluating the evidence holistically, as was naturally done with this entirely circumstantial case, F&W's sighting was accepted by the jury and thus was a part of the jigsaw that got LM convicted.

Indeed MA, weight of evidence in respect of each link in the chain adds probative value. Mitchell being exposed as lying holds probative value. His statement of why he lied to the police, 'because he knew how they worked' holds probative value. Being seen, denying it was him, not just several hundred yards away on the same road but close to the murder site held probative value. Tying in with being seen some 45mins pre murder added to the probative value of his sighting on the other side. Having in excess of 8 people stating they saw Mitchell wear such attire pre-murder holds probative value. Being seen in similar clothing on the day of the murder holds probative value. Jodi getting out earlier than expected with no means to contact anyone else holds probative value. Leaving home at a much earlier time to meet with Mitchell, then him being seen holds probative value. The list is endless and backed up by other things to add weight to that probative value. - The attempt to dismantle and break that chain or indeed ask for more to lesson probative value of each link doesn't break it. It hasn't broken its strength.

[Mr Apples]

Well, you certainly have an answer to everything, Mr Apples!
Anyway, lets go back to what happened after the murder and what was going on in LM mind, if guilty!
OK, Luke has rushed to kill Jodi and indeed she is dead within a good half hour of the last text between them, now what?
Rationally Luke must have thought,     'right ! job done, now to sneak home as soon as possible and dispose of my blood stained clothing, hopefully without being seen or recognized by anyone. I'll shower to get rid of any forensic evidence then phone Jodi's house to say that she hasn't turned up. Yes thats it, brilliant, speed home unseen, shower, dispose of murder clothing then phone Jodi's house! All evidence destroyed and no forensics on me, nothing to tie me to the murder scene, by golly i'm good! You're a genius Luke Muir Mitchell, a genius!!!!'..............
..........'No wait!.. just wait up there a minute, Mitchell! wait up you numbskull !..yes, thats it, thats it! ..why dont I just stroll onto Newbattle Road in my murder clothes for all to see! I could stand there for about an hour to let as many people see what i'm wearing and hopefully remember my face too. Who knows, someone may even pass by who actually knows me, they may even notice any small blood stains on my clothing! Yes, now i'm talking! That indeed sounds like a plan for sure my son! ..Phew!!! I almost messed up before I got started! What in the name of god was I thinking there, rush home and get cleaned up ASAP? Gee whizz!.. you are a numpty, Muir!!''...............
............
Is this what went through LM mind as he stood over Jodi's body at the locus, Mr Apples?
In hind sight, do you think he made the right drcision?
I for one cant fathom out what his plan was!!

No point in going around in circles here. I've already given my views on what I think happened that fateful day and I can't be bothered going over it all again. Check out my posting history and see if that answers any of your questions.

Where I will agree with you to an extent is why LM chose to skulk around the NB road for almost 40 mins (between 1740-1820), though I don't think he was just pacing up and down that road for 40 mins, otherwise he'd have been seen by more eyewitnesses passing in cars; I think during that 40 mins he was in the woods for a large portion of time, thinking what his next move would be and also maybe cleaning himself up a little at a little brook or stream. I think it's very possible after the F&W sighting, he disappeared into the woodland behind the gate, took his parka off, planked it, went back out onto the Nb rd wearing his German army shirt that he'd been wearing underneath the parka (an attempt to confuse potential eyewitnesses, imo). Then, after 1820, went back into the woodland, retrieved his parka, phoned his mother to quickly brief her, phoned DH, got home, briefed his mother further, gave her the murder clothes to burn, got a very quick shower, changed clothing, phoned DH back, checked the fire was underway, and met the boys in the abbey at just after 1900,  wearing clean clothes and his shiny green bomber jacket and white snowboarding boots. It's important to remember that LM's house was literally only 2 mins fast walking distance away from where he was spotted on the nb rd - and he knew all those woodlands near his house intimately, including the woodland strip where Jodi was evidently murdered. So, yes, he had ample time to cover his tracks during that window of 1820/1830 - 1905, before he met the boys in the abbey.

I don't think LM went home, cleaned up and then phoned the Jones landline at 1740. He phoned their landline after he'd murdered her and hid her body in the foilage and undergrowth 16.3 metres west of the V-break in the wall - the phone call being a ruse, giving the Joneses the impression that LM had still to meet her and in turn setting LM's false alibi in place. Remember, too, that LM had attempted to call the Jones landline at 1732, but he had abruptly hung up after only a few seconds of that call connecting. Why? Was he interrupted by someone or something at that point as he walked down the woodland strip towards nb rd, fearful that they'd blow his cover or discover Jodi's body? Or was there a loud noise that could place him at the locus at that time, such as the motorbike in dubious mechanical condition that JOF & GD were driving in the adjacent field? The same motorbike that cyclist Leonard Kelly heard as he cycled home to EH along the RDP at 1710/1715? Leonard Kelly was the guy who testified that he heard strange and disturbing sounds coming from over the wall as he cycled past, describing it as a strangling noise as if a couple of boys were fighting and someone had somebody in a headlock. LK also said that the noises gave him a fright, so much so that he slowed down to a standstill to listen. When he stopped to listen,  the disturbing noises stopped, meaning that the person over the wall heard him and made sure the noises stopped. I put it to you that this was when LM was murdering Jodi, and he was in a heightened state of alert to everything around him.

[Joe Blogs]

No point in going around in circles here. I've already given my views on what I think happened that fateful day and I can't be bothered going over it all again. Check out my posting history and see if that answers any of your questions.

Where I will agree with you to an extent is why LM chose to skulk around the NB road for almost 40 mins (between 1740-1820), though I don't think he was just pacing up and down that road for 40 mins, otherwise he'd have been seen by more eyewitnesses passing in cars; I think during that 40 mins he was in the woods for a large portion of time, thinking what his next move would be and also maybe cleaning himself up a little at a little brook or stream. I think it's very possible after the F&W sighting, he disappeared into the woodland behind the gate, took his parka off, planked it, went back out onto the Nb rd wearing his German army shirt that he'd been wearing underneath the parka (an attempt to confuse potential eyewitnesses, imo). Then, after 1820, went back into the woodland, retrieved his parka, phoned his mother to quickly brief her, phoned DH, got home, briefed his mother further, gave her the murder clothes to burn, got a very quick shower, changed clothing, phoned DH back, checked the fire was underway, and met the boys in the abbey at just after 1900,  wearing clean clothes and his shiny green bomber jacket and white snowboarding boots. It's important to remember that LM's house was literally only 2 mins fast walking distance away from where he was spotted on the nb rd - and he knew all those woodlands near his house intimately, including the woodland strip where Jodi was evidently murdered. So, yes, he had ample time to cover his tracks during that window of 1820/1830 - 1905, before he met the boys in the abbey.

I don't think LM went home, cleaned up and then phoned the Jones landline at 1740. He phoned their landline after he'd murdered her and hid her body in the foilage and undergrowth 16.3 metres west of the V-break in the wall - the phone call being a ruse, giving the Joneses the impression that LM had still to meet her and in turn setting LM's false alibi in place. Remember, too, that LM had attempted to call the Jones landline at 1732, but he had abruptly hung up after only a few seconds of that call connecting. Why? Was he interrupted by someone or something at that point as he walked down the woodland strip towards nb rd, fearful that they'd blow his cover or discover Jodi's body? Or was there a loud noise that could place him at the locus at that time, such as the motorbike in dubious mechanical condition that JOF & GD were driving in the adjacent field? The same motorbike that cyclist Leonard Kelly heard as he cycled home to EH along the RDP at 1710/1715? Leonard Kelly was the guy who testified that he heard strange and disturbing sounds coming from over the wall as he cycled past, describing it as a strangling noise as if a couple of boys were fighting and someone had somebody in a headlock. LK also said that the noises gave him a fright, so much so that he slowed down to a standstill to listen. When he stopped to listen,  the disturbing noises stopped, meaning that the person over the wall heard him and made sure the noises stopped. I put it to you that this was when LM was murdering Jodi, and he was in a heightened state of alert to everything around him.

You have quite a few posts to look at , Mr Apples, well over 500!
I may not read them all, not all at once anyway.
I have no doubt read some of them before anyway, I have visited the Red forum to see what was being said about LM and Jeremy Bamber many times in the past.
I've got the gist of your guilt scenario anyway!

[faithlilly]

What's changed? - Confirmation that SM had not seen nor heard his brother. Confirmation that he had been influenced into telling lies by his own mother. Confirmation that SM had not left home around 5:30pm but after 6:20pm. Where he still didn't see his brother around the entrance of the estate. Confirmation that it was after 6:30pm when LM was seen by the cyclist on his return journey. Confirmation that LM had not been seen sitting on the wall at the entrance of his estate, at any time. Though he claimed to be there for the best part of 80mins. Only walking to and from Barondale Cottages (claimed) twice he said. No evidence at all of him walking to and from there.

Confirmation that all the sightings of him had not been of him wearing his bomber jacket. Confirmation in everything put forward by F&W that the sighting took place at the wooden gate. Seeing the jogger 'further down the hill'  Confirmation that the two boys who knew him may possibly have confused his jacket for the one they were familiar with. Confirmation that we are still left with no sightings of LM for the best part of 70mins, where he claimed to be. Confirmation that 5 people saw LM wearing something other than his bomber jacket. 3 (so far) in places he claimed not to have been.

Confirmation that LM had lied, that his dog had not alerted him to where the victims body lay, direction of. Confirmation that the only time the dog was up at the wall was the Gino break, then directly to and at the V break. Confirmation that no alert took place past this point, confirmation that LM did not double back to anywhere. Confirmation that he had lied when claiming he knew nothing of those breaks until with the others searching. Confirmation that he had walked down into that woodland towards the V break before with others. He was familiar with the woodland. Confirmation that in excess of 8 people testified to LM wearing a khaki green, parka style jacket pre the murder. Confirmation of LM carrying knives frequently, confirmation of a missing knife. Confirmation that a fire was taken place in the Mitchell garden at different intervals that evening.

Confirmation that LM went home around 10pm and not just after 9pm. Confirmation of his many multiple missing time frames. Confirmation of his changing accounts. Confirmation of his compulsive lies. Confirmation that that he did not meet with the others at the junction of the paths. Confirmation that he had not rushed up any path. Confirmation that there is a missing time frame again, from his arrival at the path (claimed by him), to his meeting the others after 11:20pm. Confirmation that it took approx 5 1/2 mins from heading off together, to LM entering the woodland and calling out he had found his "something" Seconds in the woodland to find and identify a body, through trees, overgrowth, name tree by type the victim lay behind, her hair fastener etc.

Confirmation that LM had not borrowed a torch from his brother, SM knew nothing was amiss until awakened (claimed) by his mother in the early hours of July 1st. Confirmation that LM had not been stripped and forensically examined all over by the time of his mothers arrival at the police station. Confirmation that she was with her son when handing over that first account. Confirmation that LM asked if SM were home? Confirmation that he deleted the data from his phone and not the police. Confirmation he omitted the contact to the Jones house, being told Jodi had left already ("a wee while ago"), Conflicting accounts as to why he did nothing.

So, yes. Nothing much changed. Alibi exposed as false. Sightings still firmly in place elsewhere. The dog did not alert and show him where the victims body was, he made up position, reason and so forth, in his attempt to make it appear so. Still missing clothing, knife. Still fuelled to the brim with lies. But all in all, what has been exposed is a farce of a campaign overflowing with dishonesty. Where multiple innocents have been used as fodder to bring favour for LM. Is he innocent? I don't believe so. Was the evidence sufficient for a conviction? That will always be up for debate. It in no way shows nor proves in the slightest, that LM did not and could not have murdered Jodi Jones, imo.

Naughty, naughty Parky. Whether Shane went out at 5.30 or 6.20 makes absolutely no difference to the case against Luke. Further Luke was down at the entrance to Barndale Cottages at 6.20, standing at exactly the same place as Grant Elliot had seen him around 25 minutes before so Shane could have absolutely missed him.

We must never forget that this was a young man of 15 who just hours before his first interview had seen the body of his girlfriend, mutilated and murdered. If innocent how coherent do you think that first interview was likely to be? How accurate the timings? How accurate his recollections regarding his movements? We have seen time after time witnesses change their recollections….Carol Heatlie saw a youth in a jacket that was ‘waist length’ in July to ‘thigh length’ in October, Findlay drove a horse and cart through Fleming and Walsh’s testimony, Jodi was ‘grounded’ yet several witnesses testified to her being as free as a bird the last weekend of her life. It’s cherrypicking at its worst.

[Kenmair]

According to various media reports LM got engaged to his campaign chief and his 6th girlfriend from 2003 - that's quite a courtship. Anyone any the wiser if this is a shifty move to outwit the parole board after being named a danger to females. And will Faithlilly need to get in extra china to entertain the newly weds when he gets out.

[faithlilly]

According to various media reports LM got engaged to his campaign chief and his 6th girlfriend from 2003 - that's quite a courtship. Anyone any the wiser if this is a shifty move to outwit the parole board after being named a danger to females. And will Faithlilly need to get in extra china to entertain the newly weds when he gets out.

Poor thing. You really are riddled with it, aren’t you?

[Kenmair]

According to various media reports LM got engaged to his campaign chief and his 6th girlfriend from 2003 - that's quite a courtship. Anyone any the wiser if this is a shifty move to outwit the parole board after being named a danger to females. And will Faithlilly need to get in extra china to entertain the newly weds when he gets out.

James English "podcaster" and LM defender via his interviews with Lean & C Mitchell was in court this week on domestic abuse charges. Why are so many LM supporters misogynistic or criminal?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwydyn5nr55o

[faithlilly]

James English "podcaster" and LM defender via his interviews with Lean & C Mitchell was in court this week on domestic abuse charges. Why are so many LM supporters misogynistic or criminal?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwydyn5nr55o

Oh is the trial over then?

[Kenmair]

Oh is the trial over then?

If he's found not guilty I'll take it back, but he's a snake who tried to monetise [Name removed]'s murder through interviews with the LM rabble, and various other gangsters, right-wingers and Z-list chancers.

[faithlilly]

If he's found not guilty I'll take it back, but he's a snake who tried to monetise [Name removed]'s murder through interviews with the LM rabble, and various other gangsters, right-wingers and Z-list chancers.

I’m not particularly fond of him either but we have a judicial process for a reason.

I’m sure it wouldn’t matter to you how much money he’d made if he thought Luke guilty.

[Vertigo Swirl]

James English "podcaster" and LM defender via his interviews with Lean & C Mitchell was in court this week on domestic abuse charges. Why are so many LM supporters misogynistic or criminal?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwydyn5nr55o

We can see where he’s coming from I think “ On his podcast, English has interviewed celebrities including Andrew Tate, Katie Price, and Tommy Robinson.”

[Kenmair]

We can see where he’s coming from I think “ On his podcast, English has interviewed celebrities including Andrew Tate, Katie Price, and Tommy Robinson.”

The LM campaign has been based on lies and gossip. English added fuel to the fire by indulging Lean & CM without doing "due diligence". He was in it for the likes for his channel. If rumour and gossip are to be believed there is much more to unfold about his behaviour with women, but he will no doubt play the victim much like LM's defenders.