The tracker dogs

[DCI]

Try Anna Esse translation.

Chapter 16
http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/goncalo-amaral-maddie-lenquete_12.html

[ferryman]

Carana wreaks fearful havoc with my stomach ulcers when she gets on to the subject of comparative translations of extracts from Amaral's book ....

[Carana]

Carana wreaks fearful havoc with my stomach ulcers when she gets on to the subject of comparative translations of extracts from Amaral's book ....

Now that's naughty, Ferryman... LOL

Seriously, I do have a question about that point.


Maybe AnneGuedes could check if she pops into this thread.

[Carana]

Try Anna Esse translation.

Chapter 16
http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/goncalo-amaral-maddie-lenquete_12.html

My question concerns the meaning of the phrase in the original Portuguese. It may - or may not - have been a misinterpretation.

[Carana]

Found the passage.

Copying the whole passage for the moment before I lose it.

Mark Harrison tinha solicitado um espaço reservado e assép- tico, para onde deveriam ser encaminhados os objectos e roupas retirados do interior da casa, e examinados pelos cães EVRD e CSI. Face a tal pedido, solicitámos, mais uma vez, os bons ofí- cios de Júlio Barroso, presidente da Câmara Municipal de Lagos. Descobre-se uma garagem num prédio novo e desabitado, no cen- tro de Lagos. Júlio Barroso ordena a limpeza por parte dos servi- ços camarários. A garagem fica um «brinco». Pouco passava das 18 h 00 do dia 2 de Agosto de 2007 quando os inspectores bate- ram à porta do número 27 da Rua da Flores, na Praia da Luz. Kate Healy e Gerald McCann davam banho aos gémeos na piscina exterior localizada no jardim da casa quando lhes foi exibido um mandado de busca e lhes foi explicado que a sua casa iria ser alvo de uma inspecção cinotécnica. Surpreendentemente, o casal rea- giu bem às intenções da polícia e de forma aberta e frontal deram acesso ilimitado aos investigadores. De imediato se deu início ao exame com Eddie, o cão de detecção de odor de cadáveres. Assim que entrou na casa, o canídeo dirigiu-se à sala, onde em cima de um cadeirão de verga se encontrava o pequeno peluche cor-de- -rosa da desaparecida Madeleine, o famoso cuddle cat que Kate Healy trazia consigo para todo o lado, o qual exibia agora um rosário à volta do pescoço e uma fita verde. Mais uma vez Eddie aplicou toda a sua experiência de sete anos de trabalho dedicados
171
Maddie A Verdade da Mentira
a inspecções forenses em cenários de crime e, com um determi- nante e afirmativo latido, indicou que aquele peluche tinha estado em contacto com um cadáver. O boneco tinha odor de cadáver. Com a utilização de caixas de papelão adquiridas para o efeito, foi encaixotada toda a roupa existente na casa, com a finalidade de a transportar para um local limpo e descontaminado, onde seriam colocadas no chão, de forma espaçada, a fim de os cães EVRD e CSI procederem a um exame minucioso. Pelas 20 h 00, recebo um telefonema do Tavares de Almeida:
— A garagem não serve. O Mark quer um local mais limpo.
— Como é que tu queres que eu a esta hora encontre um local descontaminado?
— Desenrasca-te!
Telefono ao Júlio Barroso. Digo-lhe que a garagem não serve para a diligência que queríamos realizar. Pergunto-lhe por um local mais limpo. O presidente da Câmara de Lagos sugere o recentemente inaugurado pavilhão polidesportivo. Pelas 23 h 20, nas instalações do pavilhão polidesportivo, com todas as peças de roupa colocadas no chão, dá-se início a um novo exame dos cães EVRD e CSI. Uma vez mais Eddie assinala um forte odor de cadáver quando farejava as roupas da mãe de Maddie. Umas calças de tecido com padrões de xadrez em cores preta e branca e uma blusa sem mangas decotada de cor branca, pertencentes a Kate Healy, fizeram o cão ladrar euforicamente, face ao odor de cadáver. O cão CSI não localizou vestígios hemáticos.


My question is: were the clothes actually laid out twice, or did the first mention of this incident concern an intention to do so?

ETA: Tried to clarify my question.

[ferryman]

I just alighted on this, from Anna Esse's translation:

 A few days later, we welcome Mark Harrison, a specialist in murder,

Hmmmmm!

Mark Harrison might have a thing or two to say about that ...

[Redblossom]

Ferryman, This is the quote in full

Quote
A few days later, we welcome Mark Harrison, a specialist in murder, and the search for missing persons and victims of natural disasters. National advisor to the British police, he is well known for his exceptional professional experience. He has already participated in dozens of international criminal investigations.
Unquote

It doesn't really differ from Mr Harrison's own words, does it? So what point are you trying to make?

Quote
I am the National Adviser in relation to Search for all Police agencies within the United Kingdom for Missing persons, Abduction and Homicide. My role involves advising on searching for persons that are missing, abducted or murdered, using enhanced search techniques and technologies. I attend and review cases providing advice and support on search plans, strategies and resources. I have extensive national and international experience in such casework
Unquote

[ferryman]

It was intended to be more tongue-in-cheek than a serious point ...

[Redblossom]

Sadie, I was thinking about what you said about Madeleine's scent from her blanket beig masked over and that the dogs would have been following the abductor's sweaty/ciggy smell instead. This raises two questions.

Did the abductor also use the towel that the Mccanns gave the dog handler on the other occasion to use to find the trail?

The two different tracking dogs used on May 4th and May 8th one usng the blanket and the other a towel, followed the exact same route, as shown on this map, which was out of the front door of flat 5a, turning left and going round the block, back up the alley, down to the car park, up to the Tapas Bar entrance door, and back to the car park. Why would any abductor take this route?
http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/maddietrail.jpg&target=tlx_picqfob

[Redblossom]

In so far as I understood things, the dogs were sent to PdL to search the beach and surrounding areas to see if they could find Madeleine's body.  Which they might have done if it was there.
Deploying them in the appartment and other places of residence was the idea of The PJ, ie. Amaral, three months after the event, and after multiple reoccupations.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

This is Mr Harrison's report. Can you point me to where it says it was Mr Amaral who asked for the Tapas Nine apartments to be searched using the cadaver and blood dog? And that Mr Harrison only recommended the beach be searched? in fact, the report proves the opposite.

Regarding your other comment about the posters on the car being taken down, this was done when the blood dog was put inside the vehicle, after Eddie had finished his search, and IMO was done so as to have a clear view of what Keela was doing and where exactly she was alerting as it is always a very specific spot. If Mr Grime wanted to pretend he didn't know whose car it was, do you really think he would, if he did know, have left the posters there from the start? Or take them down half way through the search after suddenly realising it might look suspicious? Likewise, if he was really cueing the dog to alert, would he have done so if it was so obvious and recorded on video?

[DevilsAdvocate]

It was intended to be more tongue-in-cheek than a serious point ...

With all due respect Ferryman, but it is tongue in cheek remarks and selective phrases being taken out of context where forum myths begin to germinate, as we have all seen these forum myths tend to form the foundations of certain people's hypothesis of what occurred in this case !

Also why has this thread morphed into another discussion about Martin Grimes and his dogs ? The OP was intended to discuss the scent dogs of the GNR !

[Redblossom]

DA, I wondered that too, there are several threads now discussing both to one extent or the other, and it's getting confusing.

Ok, Ferryman, I will give you the benefit of the doubt this time. I was just pointing out that half quotes designed to perhaps give some impression, which impression I couldn't figure out btw, do nothing IMO to further a discussion.

[Carana]

A PT speaker has kindly checked the passage in Portuguese.

There are translation problems. The original doesn't say that they actually were laid out before the phone call. The PT uses the conditional tense.


Com a utilização de caixas de papelão adquiridas para o efeito, foi encaixotada toda a roupa existente na casa, com a finalidade de a transportar para um local limpo e descontaminado, onde seriam colocadas no chão, de forma espaçada, a fim de os cães EVRD e CSI procederem a um exame minucioso.


From the English version quoted earlier:
The soft toy and all the clothes from the house are placed into boxes specially made to preserve evidence. These objects are then conveyed to the decontaminated premises. They are placed on the ground, a good distance apart for the dogs to examine.


The PT speaker offered this translation, which corresponds to what I thought:
All the clothes existing in the house were packed in cardboard boxes bought for that purpose, in order to transport them to a clean and not contaminated place where they would be laid on the floor, separated one from the other, for the dogs to be able to examine them carefully.



Soooo.

- "Bought for that purpose" (to pack the clothes to take them for inspection) is hardly the same as "specially made to preserve evidence".

- "Were placed" isn't the same as "would be placed" or "were to be placed" (expressing a hypothetical future action).

I still find it ambiguous. It's still not clear to me whether the clothes were actually laid out or not, nor where these boxes actually came from, nor where they were (emptied or not) whilst they were trying to find a new venue.



ETA: Apparently there's another translation issue which may contribute to the confusion.


Copying the explanation I've been given:

(Original text):

Pelas 23 h 20, nas instalações do pavilhão polidesportivo, com todas as peças de roupa colocadas no chão, dá-se início a um novo exame dos cães EVRD e CSI.

If the dogs had examined the clothes for the second time, the text would say:

dá-se início de novo ao exame dos cães EVRD e CSI.
or dá-se início novamente ao exame dos cães EVRD e CSI.



The difference being (from what I think I've understood of the explanation) is that the original text meant that the dogs were again deployed on another inspection mission (following on from a description of a different inspection, unrelated to clothes) as opposed to examining the clothes once again (which is how it was translated).

[Redblossom]

Thanks Carana for the translations, also it would havebeen recorded on video if two places had been used to lay out the clothes as all the searches were videod top to bottom for five hours

I better log off because it seems no one apart from me is posting tonight, looks like I have taken over the forum. hit ai did have to respond to a bunch of threads from last night.

Bye

[Carana]

Thanks Carana for the translations, also it would havebeen recorded on video if two places had been used to lay out the clothes as all the searches were videod top to bottom for five hours

I better log off because it seems no one apart from me is posting tonight, looks like I have taken over the forum. hit ai did have to respond to a bunch of threads from last night.

Bye

Actually, the thanks go to the person who checked it for me.

Well, if someone had started to unpack a box in an unsuitable place, and then packed it up again, I somewhat doubt that such a scene would feature in the edited extracts...