Author Topic: The Neglect question  (Read 65082 times)

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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2013, 06:52:06 PM »
Mark Warner usually did a nanny listening service, where by a nanny would listen outside of the apartment to see if a child was crying.    If Madeleine had disappeared if they had gone for this service if it had been available,  would that had been neglect Stephen?    The McCanns have said they were doing their own 'listening service'.


Their visits were infrequent and I believe they didn't want a listening service.

So it also beggars the question as to why no babysitter.

Likewise the children were in a creche for most of the day, where they were being taken care of by essentially strangers, so what was this aversion to care during the evenings, whilst they wined and dined ?

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2013, 06:52:44 PM »
This is such a waste of time.  The McCanns haven't been arrested and they aren't going to be.  And the people who keep on about this are just using it as an excuse for their spiteful behaviour, which certainly isn't going to change anyone's mind.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #92 on: April 18, 2013, 06:56:22 PM »
Well if the McCanns have been judged not to have been negligent leaving the children when one of them was abducted,   then I doubt if they would be found negligent if one of them had an accident.

They were judged not to have 'intent' to harm,  correct me if that is wrong.    In my opinion that means they thought the children  were safe as they were   checking on them at regular intervals.   

I think that the question of negligence is markedly different where the outcome is serious  ( or fatal ) injury, rather than abduction

It is with regard to the  'wilfull'  aspect described in a post above

In law the term  'wilfull'  is not only used with regard to intent  ...  it also applies where an act  ( or omission )  is  'knowingly'  undertaken

The McCanns could not reasonably have been expected to factor in the possible risk of abduction,  because that risk was so remote and unforeseeable.  They did not wilfully  ( knowingly )  expose her to that risk because they were not  aware  of it

The possible risk of accident or injury to a young child who has woken and wondered, though,  is not remote or unforseeable  ...  and is  one  the  McCanns could reasonably be expected to be  aware of

Their  decision to place their children at that risk was, therefore,  made wilfully  (  knowingly )

If the  eventual outcome of their decisions had resulted in a serious ( or fatal )  injury then it could be suggested that it was their wilfull disregard of a  'known'  risk that had lead to it,  and a negligence charge appropriate

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #93 on: April 18, 2013, 07:04:16 PM »
This is such a waste of time.  The McCanns haven't been arrested and they aren't going to be.  And the people who keep on about this are just using it as an excuse for their spiteful behaviour, which certainly isn't going to change anyone's mind.

Spiteful no.

The truth, YES.

Offline Lace

Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #94 on: April 18, 2013, 07:21:23 PM »
Well if the McCanns have been judged not to have been negligent leaving the children when one of them was abducted,   then I doubt if they would be found negligent if one of them had an accident.

They were judged not to have 'intent' to harm,  correct me if that is wrong.    In my opinion that means they thought the children  were safe as they were   checking on them at regular intervals.   

I think that the question of negligence is markedly different where the outcome is serious  ( or fatal ) injury, rather than abduction

I understand what you are saying and don't get me wrong I wouldn't have left my children as they did.   I am just trying to understand their way of thinking.

I suppose it could be said that children could have an accident even when the parents are at home.    For instance I read an article on line about a couple who were getting a lot of stick from other parents,  for locking their small child in his bedroom.   The parents said that he got up at night and went downstairs.   

The reason that they finally decided to lock him in his bedroom was because he had gone downstairs in the middle of the night and knocked something over [can't remember what it was]   it had narrowly missed him.

He could of course have tried to cook himself something to eat or even have unlocked the front door and gone wandering.

It is with regard to the  'wilfull'  aspect described in a post above

In law the term  'wilfull'  is not only used with regard to intent  ...  it also applies where an act  ( or omission )  is  'knowingly'  undertaken

The McCanns could not reasonably have been expected to factor in the possible risk of abduction,  because that risk was so remote and unforeseeable.  They did not wilfully  ( knowingly )  expose her to that risk because they were not  aware  of it

The possible risk of accident or injury to a young child who has woken and wondered, though,  is not remote or unforseeable  ...  and is  one  the  McCanns could reasonably be expected to be  aware of

Their  decision to place their children at that risk was, therefore,  made wilfully  (  knowingly )

If the  eventual outcome of their decisions had resulted in a serious ( or fatal )  injury then it could be suggested that it was their wilfull disregard of a  'known'  risk that had lead to it,  and a negligence charge appropriate

Offline Lace

Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #95 on: April 18, 2013, 07:30:40 PM »
Sorry don't know what happened there,  made a bit of mess with my reply.   Its in the middle if you can work it out ?{)(**

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #96 on: April 18, 2013, 07:34:10 PM »
This is such a waste of time.  The McCanns haven't been arrested and they aren't going to be.  And the people who keep on about this are just using it as an excuse for their spiteful behaviour, which certainly isn't going to change anyone's mind.

Spiteful no.

The truth, YES.

The Truth is that The McCanns are never going to be charged or convicted of neglect.

Offline Lace

Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #97 on: April 18, 2013, 07:49:06 PM »
I have managed to seperate my post from yours icabodcrane -

I understand what you are saying and don't get me wrong I wouldn't have left my children as they did.   I am just trying to understand their way of thinking.

I suppose it could be said that children could have an accident even when the parents are at home.    For instance I read an article on line about a couple who were getting a lot of stick from other parents,  for locking their small child in his bedroom.   The parents said that he got up at night and went downstairs.   

The reason that they finally decided to lock him in his bedroom was because he had gone downstairs in the middle of the night and knocked something over [can't remember what it was]   it had narrowly missed him.

He could of course have tried to cook himself something to eat or even have unlocked the front door and gone wandering.


« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 07:51:17 PM by Lace »

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #98 on: April 18, 2013, 07:56:49 PM »
This is such a waste of time.  The McCanns haven't been arrested and they aren't going to be.  And the people who keep on about this are just using it as an excuse for their spiteful behaviour, which certainly isn't going to change anyone's mind.

Spiteful no.

The truth, YES.

The Truth is that The McCanns are never going to be charged or convicted of neglect.


Probably true.

However, what they have done will not be forgotten by many people, and it will hang around their heads for many years to come.

Meanwhile , we can talk about the case til the cows come home, but there is no sign of Madeleine, let alone knowing the truth of what happened to her nearly 6 years ago.




Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #99 on: April 18, 2013, 07:57:56 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

@ the start Kate Mccann says it was all quiet and she'd be tempted just to turn back were it not for the door being more open than they had left it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfDV7imHHY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
@
13.20 Gerry Mccann says after Matt Oldfield saying it was dead quiet, yes, as he was saying before, that Thursday was the only night he had stuck his head in the room as the door hadn't been just as it he had left it

Is it safe to assume that before that night no physical checks were ever made? And if you take into account some of the waiter and barmen's statements telling how the party would leave around midnight, that's a long time to leave three toddlers unchecked physically in an insecure apartment.

And all this under the banner of responsible parenting.

debunker

  • Guest
Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #100 on: April 18, 2013, 07:59:52 PM »
Here is another case for good measure.


http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/10331310.Woman_leaves_children_home_alone_to_go_clubbing/

Bad measure.

Where is the checking every twenty minutes.

Do you have problems with undertanding simple English?

debunker

  • Guest
Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #101 on: April 18, 2013, 08:00:47 PM »
Here is another case for good measure.
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/10331310.Woman_leaves_children_home_alone_to_go_clubbing/
...
No comparison Stephen.   
That is a matter of opinion Lace.
Neglect is neglect.As a consequence of what the Mccanns failed to do, she 'disappeared', and no matter how much


Intent is required in Portuguese Lawe





 haranguing some people may do, there is no overcoming that salient point.

debunker

  • Guest
Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #102 on: April 18, 2013, 08:03:12 PM »
Mark Warner usually did a nanny listening service, where by a nanny would listen outside of the apartment to see if a child was crying.    If Madeleine had disappeared if they had gone for this service if it had been available,  would that had been neglect Stephen?    The McCanns have said they were doing their own 'listening service'.


Their visits were infrequent and I believe they didn't want a listening service.

So it also beggars the question as to why no babysitter

Likewise the children were in a creche for most of the day, where they were being taken care of by essentially strangers, so what was this aversion to care during the evenings, whilst they wined and dined ?

Being in the creche matters not.

They were able to claim that they checked every twenty minutes or so.

No criminal neglect unless you know better than the Portuguese Prosecutor!!!!!


debunker

  • Guest
Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #103 on: April 18, 2013, 08:04:02 PM »
This is such a waste of time.  The McCanns haven't been arrested and they aren't going to be.  And the people who keep on about this are just using it as an excuse for their spiteful behaviour, which certainly isn't going to change anyone's mind.

Too true. [ censored word ]s to a sub-human tee.

debunker

  • Guest
Re: The Neglect question
« Reply #104 on: April 18, 2013, 08:07:28 PM »
It is quite simple.

They were not criminally negligent.

Everything else is merely biased speculation.