The Neglect question

[stephen25000]

I was asking you specifically about the supposed neglect issue Stephen, nothing about silly forum wars or "sides".  How many more years do you think it will be necessary for you to publicly lambast the McCanns on the internet for neglect?  What might make you stop?  Because they are unlikely ever to be charged with neglect now, so what exactly do you hope to achieve?  Are you hoping to have the twins taken into care?   Do you think you will still be taking the time and trouble to write about the McCanns' "neglect" in 10 years?  You tell me why you think this is the right thing to be doing with your time please.

I will choose to criticize the Mccanns for what happened.

Madeleine is missing.

They through the carelessness and stupidity, left Madeleine and her siblings in a dangerous situation.

No matter what you say, that won't change.

Likewise, you don't know what happened in the apartment, and you don't know that she didn't have an accident there.

The abduction is a thesis with no evidence.

Finally after nearly 6 years, not a sign of her , after worldwide publicity, never equaled in a missing person's case.

[debunker]

Ichabod, you're assuming that the McCanns would know that they would certainly face prosecution for neglect in such an event.  You think they would risk committing a worse crime with more severe consequences should they be found out?  What would be the motive of their friends in agreeing to cover up an accident?

Bump.

I was asking whether  members here think,  in such circumstances,  the McCanns would likely have faced negligence charges

I think almost certainly yes  .... and there would have been very  little public sympathy in that event 

In that scenario, I think the McCanns  would feel a negligence charge was almost inevitable

Not in Portugal where, as I have cited, INTENT is necessary, not mere stupidity.

Nothing similar has ever been prosecuted in the UK.

[debunker]

The Case was Shelved because Madeleine hasn't been found.  They were hardly likely to close the case under those circumstances.

Missing persons and Murder cases are never closed by the police in England.

Does that give every suspect in such a case the same status- Barry George still a suspect, Stephan Kiszko, the Birmingham Six, all other fitted up Irish from the era?

[debunker]

I was asking you specifically about the supposed neglect issue Stephen, nothing about silly forum wars or "sides".  How many more years do you think it will be necessary for you to publicly lambast the McCanns on the internet for neglect?  What might make you stop?  Because they are unlikely ever to be charged with neglect now, so what exactly do you hope to achieve?  Are you hoping to have the twins taken into care?   Do you think you will still be taking the time and trouble to write about the McCanns' "neglect" in 10 years?  You tell me why you think this is the right thing to be doing with your time please.

I will choose to criticize the Mccanns for what happened.

Madeleine is missing.

They through the carelessness and stupidity, left Madeleine and her siblings in a dangerous situation.

No matter what you say, that won't change.

Likewise, you don't know what happened in the apartment, and you don't know that she didn't have an accident there.

The abduction is a thesis with no evidence.

Finally after nearly 6 years, not a sign of her , after worldwide publicity, never equaled in a missing person's case.

Ben Needham??? and thousands of others. Get Real. You are sounding increasingly desperate and a little bit silly.

[C.Edwards]

It appears to me, Stephen, that what we should be doing apparently is being quiet so that the McCanns can have an open stage to continue their campaign unchallenged. The last time I looked it was a free country and if someone's putting their version of events into the media I would have thought it reasonable for those with a dissenting voice to be given equal opportunity.

For example if it all goes quiet on the dissent front and in a year or two another toddler goes missing from an unlocked holiday apartment and the parents say, "but the McCanns did it and nobody criticised them so we thought it was ok to eat at the nearby tapas bar!" then it would be a bit of a tragedy, wouldn't it?

I wonder how many years it was ok for people to criticise before it was judged the poor parents have had enough criticism?  I suspect it won't be a very big number but it will probably be a round one.

[debunker]

It appears to me, Stephen, that what we should be doing apparently is being quiet so that the McCanns can have an open stage to continue their campaign unchallenged. The last time I looked it was a free country and if someone's putting their version of events into the media I would have thought it reasonable for those with a dissenting voice to be given equal opportunity.

For example if it all goes quiet on the dissent front and in a year or two another toddler goes missing from an unlocked holiday apartment and the parents say, "but the McCanns did it and nobody criticised them so we thought it was ok to eat at the nearby tapas bar!" then it would be a bit of a tragedy, wouldn't it?

I wonder how many years it was ok for people to criticise before it was judged the poor parents have had enough criticism?  I suspect it won't be a very big number but it will probably be a round one.

Read up on the laws on defamation, privacy and harassment.

And see my thread on Justice.

[stephen25000]

It appears to me, Stephen, that what we should be doing apparently is being quiet so that the McCanns can have an open stage to continue their campaign unchallenged. The last time I looked it was a free country and if someone's putting their version of events into the media I would have thought it reasonable for those with a dissenting voice to be given equal opportunity.

For example if it all goes quiet on the dissent front and in a year or two another toddler goes missing from an unlocked holiday apartment and the parents say, "but the McCanns did it and nobody criticised them so we thought it was ok to eat at the nearby tapas bar!" then it would be a bit of a tragedy, wouldn't it?

I wonder how many years it was ok for people to criticise before it was judged the poor parents have had enough criticism?  I suspect it won't be a very big number but it will probably be a round one.

Good morning C.Edwards.

I completely agree with you.

They just want us to roll over on our backs, metaphorically of course and fawn to the Mccanns.

Now that ain't go to happen.

Meanwhile the 'hate' filled language and terms comes from their supporters.

[C.Edwards]

Indeed Stephen. What I particularly dislike is the ominous undertone that is connected to everything McCann. "If you don't shut up, we'll shut you up. Have you met our lawyers?" sort of thing.  I'd have thought it counter-productive to be seen to be stifling opposition.  Smacks of censorship really.  It's no wonder that the tide of public opinion is turning against them as evidenced by the vast majority of the "this morning" facebook comments about the McCanns being negative.

It's pretty undeniable that Icabod has a very good point. If this had all been presented as "parents leave toddlers alone in flat and fire/fall kills one" then they'd have been prosecuted for neglect without doubt.  That the case is being presented as "abducted without trace" is not altering how they left the children regardless of whether there was an abduction or not, it's just attempting to focus the blame elsewhere.  "poor us, how could we know... pity us... give us money to search for our missing daughter" sort of thing.  Not a "how could we be so stupid, please don't ever do what we did, it's just not safe, we were so wrong to do what we did" in sight.

[C.Edwards]

Can anyone give me examples where other parents of inexplicably missing children have courted the media spotlight so assiduously?  To the extent where they've winkled their way into official causes as un-, semi- or even official spokespeople?  Where such parents have held forth on various subjects as though they are leading authorities in the fields, where such parents have repeatedly failed to acknowledge their wrongdoing in setting off the whole chain of events, therefore setting a hideously bad example to all?  Would it not be fair to say that the neglect is proven as they have a missing, in all likelihood dead, child and if that's not harm, what is?  Regardless of whether the UK or Portuguese authorities have taken the step of charging them or not, it doesn't alter the facts of what they did and have failed to take responsibility for.

"Back garden"
"Well within the bounds of responsible parenting"

Oh yes?

[Eleanor]

How many times do The McCanns have to say that they wish they hadn't done it?  And why do certain people remain entirely ignorant  of this fact?

And No, I will not be providing a link.

[Lace]

C. Edwards/Stephen -     Every time there is an article about the McCanns it is explained how their child is missing.  Is there any need at all for poster's to then add messages saying such things as 'they're child wouldn't be missing if they hadn't left them alone'    or    'shouldn't have gone out on the p....s then should they'    To me this is just twisting the knife to my way of thinking.    It is not,  as some suggest them trying to point out to the public the dangers of leaving children alone as they had already been pointed out in the article inwhich they had just read.

If as you say you choose to do these things then it only shows what spiteful people you are.

[stephen25000]

Indeed Stephen. What I particularly dislike is the ominous undertone that is connected to everything McCann. "If you don't shut up, we'll shut you up. Have you met our lawyers?" sort of thing.  I'd have thought it counter-productive to be seen to be stifling opposition.  Smacks of censorship really.  It's no wonder that the tide of public opinion is turning against them as evidenced by the vast majority of the "this morning" facebook comments about the McCanns being negative.

It's pretty undeniable that Icabod has a very good point. If this had all been presented as "parents leave toddlers alone in flat and fire/fall kills one" then they'd have been prosecuted for neglect without doubt.  That the case is being presented as "abducted without trace" is not altering how they left the children regardless of whether there was an abduction or not, it's just attempting to focus the blame elsewhere.  "poor us, how could we know... pity us... give us money to search for our missing daughter" sort of thing.  Not a "how could we be so stupid, please don't ever do what we did, it's just not safe, we were so wrong to do what we did" in sight.

Yes  C.Edwards, you have got it absolutely right.

We now have the 'threat' that the Mccanns will pursuit their critics on the internet.

It reminds me of that saying....

'The best form of defense is to attack'.


What some of the Mccann supporters don't seem to comprehend is the idea of freedom of speech.

They and the Mccanns want the 'freedom'  to peddle the non-proven abduction, and, attack and try to ridicule anyone who doesn't believe it.

Then of course they pursue the usual line that the Mccanns are being abused, when in reality it is largely the Mccann supporters carrying out the abuse.

I have yet to see ONE instance where the Mccanns have criticized their extreme backers, some of which are undoubtedly posting on here.

[stephen25000]

C. Edwards/Stephen -     Every time there is an article about the McCanns it is explained how their child is missing.  Is there any need at all for poster's to then add messages saying such things as 'they're child wouldn't be missing if they hadn't left them alone'    or    'shouldn't have gone out on the p....s then should they'    To me this is just twisting the knife to my way of thinking.    It is not,  as some suggest them trying to point out to the public the dangers of leaving children alone as they had already been pointed out in the article inwhich they had just read.

If as you say you choose to do these things then it only shows what spiteful people you are.

But they claim what they did was responsible parenting.

It wasn't.

That's why Madeleine is midssing.

[Lace]

Stephen -   you know and I know that they have repeatedly said they regret wha they did, that they would never leave their children again.    Why can't you see that?

[Eleanor]

Stephen -   you know and I know that they have repeatedly said they regret wha they did, that they would never leave their children again.    Why can't you see that?

And nor would anyone else with half a brain.  I did it, but I would never do it again.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing.