The Neglect question

[C.Edwards]

So - because Kerry Needham received very little help we think the McCanns should also have received very little help, is that the consensus here?

No. The feeling is that because the Mccanns were doctors, affluent et al, that they couldn't possibly have done anything 'bad' to their children but in the Needham case, the consensus was they weren't keeping an eye on ben and they must have known what happened.

Thank you for your kind comments.

So many times, I've heard the McCanns say "we regret what we did, but..." then try to justify their recklessness. I know this doesn't help in any way, and has been said a thousand times, but it was bloody insanity to leave three tiny children alone in an apartment. Anything could have gone wrong. They could have lost all three.

It's been said a thousand times?  More like 100,000 times, but thanks for saying it again even though you know it doesn't help. I expect you'll feel like saying it again soon.  Probably still be saying it next year, and the year after that, and the year after that....

As long as I have to think about what may have happened (and, god forbid, may still be happening) to that little girl, because of her parents' stupidity, yes, I probably will.

Quite. Well said. 

[icabodcrane]

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen - applause for those who intend to continue the campaign of condemnation of the parents of a missing child indefinitely.  Nice.

'... the campaign of condemnation'  ?

Where on earth did you get the idea that shona is part of a  'campaign'  ? 

She has expressed an opinion that many others happen to  share,  that's all 

[Lace]

Shona,   so its hard for you to think what Madeleine could be going through is it.

Well think what it is like for her PARENTS and family !!

Especially when there are people who are hell bent in rubbing the fact that their daughter is missing because they left them alone.   As if they need reminding.

[Luz]

The NUT thread.

Note: please Admin. ad nut to my bad words list. Much obliged.
By the way, brazilian nuts are my favorite.

[Chinagirl]

I have never understood why the [ censored word] continually beat up the McCanns for "neglect" when at the same time, they claim disbelief in an abduction.  The argument they use is that Madeleine would not have been abducted if the McCanns had not left their children on their own while "wining and dining."  But they say she was not abducted; that she died somehow (many speculations as to cause) and the parents concealed her body, so surely, logically, if this is your belief, the issue of the leaving the children alone is absolutely irrelevant.

It is the pro contention, along with the parents, the Scotland Yard review team, and most intelligent people, that Madeleine was abducted from that apartment by a stranger.  Most pros will agree that the leaving the children, while not constituting neglect, was certainly unwise, because it made it easier for the abduction to happen - not impossible, as a determined abductor would have found another way to snatch the child -  but it did facilitate the abduction.  However, as the parents have repeatedly expressed their regret for their action, it is pointless, even cruel, to continue to berate them or pretend that they are guilty of neglect.

If you're going to claim that no abduction took place; that Madeleine died at her parents' hands, or any other cause and that her parents staged the abduction, then you cannot also accuse them of neglect.  After all, concealing a corpse is a far, far worse crime than leaving the children with periodic checks.

So which is it - death in the apartment and therefore no neglect, or abduction facilitated by temporary poor parental judgement?

 

[gilet]

So - because Kerry Needham received very little help we think the McCanns should also have received very little help, is that the consensus here?

No. The feeling is that because the Mccanns were doctors, affluent et al, that they couldn't possibly have done anything 'bad' to their children but in the Needham case, the consensus was they weren't keeping an eye on ben and they must have known what happened.

Thank you for your kind comments.

So many times, I've heard the McCanns say "we regret what we did, but..." then try to justify their recklessness. I know this doesn't help in any way, and has been said a thousand times, but it was bloody insanity to leave three tiny children alone in an apartment. Anything could have gone wrong. They could have lost all three.

It's been said a thousand times?  More like 100,000 times, but thanks for saying it again even though you know it doesn't help. I expect you'll feel like saying it again soon.  Probably still be saying it next year, and the year after that, and the year after that....

As long as I have to think about what may have happened (and, god forbid, may still be happening) to that little girl, because of her parents' stupidity, yes, I probably will.

Do you feel exactly the same about all parents who have ever made stupid decisions and their children have come to harm? And do you post on the internet about their stupidity and the suffering their children are undergoing? If so where are these posts?  Or do you simply post about the McCanns in this way?

And why are you so fixated on the negative? Acknowledging the mistake and accepting that it was a mistake and the suffering caused is devastating is one thing but continually repeating the claim as some kind of mantra appears very negative and self-damaging.  How does it help Madeleine that you and others wish to destroy her parent's lives and with those the lives of their other two children? Are you and others like you who cannot refrain from this punishing of the parents not simply causing or attempting to cause suffering yourselves to the other children? What does that make you? Child abusers?

[Admin]

Can Shona please respond to the last post.

[peter claridge]

It's a facet of the neglect issue which applies to all of the childrens parents in the group that led to the claim of Madeleine's abduction and the groups (minus Dianne Webster) willingness to go along with and aid that claim.
The neglect issue is only an issue due to the Smith sighting.

[ferryman]

Before talking about a "facet" of the "neglect" issue, you need to establish some basis for the allegation of "neglect"?

[ferryman]

Of course, there are those who would argue that the "neglect issue" stemming from the Smith sighting out to have ceased to be an issue from the point that PJ Officer Joao Carlos wrote, in the final PJ report, that at the time of the Smith sighting, Gerry was in the Tapas Restaurant.

[peter claridge]

Before talking about a "facet" of the "neglect" issue, you need to establish some basis for the allegation of "neglect"?

I'll take it as read then that you'll no longer be talking about any facet of the allegation of abduction then?

[ferryman]

Before talking about a "facet" of the "neglect" issue, you need to establish some basis for the allegation of "neglect"?

I'll take it as read then that you'll no longer be talking about any facet of the allegation of abduction then?

Do you believe in "guilty until proven innocent"?

[Eleanor]

Before talking about a "facet" of the "neglect" issue, you need to establish some basis for the allegation of "neglect"?

I'll take it as read then that you'll no longer be talking about any facet of the allegation of abduction then?

Do you believe in "guilty until proven innocent"?

Don't be silly, Silly.  You won't get an answer to that.

[ferryman]

You're doubtless right.

In the meantime, there is a wealth of evidence from the files that the McCanns and their friends took the business of checking on their children seriously; none that the McCanns, or any of their friends, had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance ...

[peter claridge]

You're doubtless right.

In the meantime, there is a wealth of evidence from the files that the McCanns and their friends took the business of checking on their children seriously; none that the McCanns, or any of their friends, had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance ...

There is a wealth of evidence in the files notably the statements and timelines provided by the group that the McCann's had everything to do with Madeleine's fate and their friends (minus Dianne Webster at the time) are complicit in the cover up.
The very fact the group minus the Paynes had to return to check on their children is evidence enough of neglect, not that checking had any bearing on Madeleine's fate.