Do witness discrepancies point to lies or are they just improved memory?

[gilet]

The Psychology of memory is complex. Memory is not a single facet, nor is it always accurate, or more accurate later rather than earlier.

Each time a memory is rehear..d (either silently or with other people, significant changes are introduced into the internal narrative that may in themselves become part of future recall.

Also, in interviews, what is produced is extremely dependent on the questions being asked and the context of the interview.

Anyone who claims to ´know´what statement is correct and what is not is either stupid or acting well above their intellectual pay-grade.

What we can know, without a shadow of doubt,  is that when Gerry McCann said he entered the front door using his key  ...  and then said that he entered through the open patio doors  ...  that  one  of the statements  had to be  untrue   

No need for anyone to punch above their intellectual weight to come to that simple conclusion

It is of course impossible for both to be true. But it is possible for a person to have different memories about the same event. This is normal. It does NOT mean that one of the statements is a lie- merely that his recollection was different at different times.

I get the impression that people are talking about different things.

One being memory recall, but the other is the content of (PT) statements which are not verbatim and which are simply a summary of what the officer has understood. Factor in stress, language difficulties... and what we see on paper may not equate to what was actually said / understood.

In the Roque, Costa and Batista instances  there are no stress, translation, language difficulties or other similar problems.

The discrepancy is simple

Nothing said about the issue in the first or second statements by three separate people. Then months later these three separate people all remember the very same thing.

That type of language difficulty, translation problem or stress effect may of course have caused problems with the statements of Jane Tanner and Gerry McCann.

[debunker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique

So you re suggesting Gerry's memory of doing his check by way of the front door using a key had been 'implanted'   in his mind using the 'lost in the mall technique'

Who did this implanting then ? 

tsk tsk,  what nonsense

You have obviously failed to understand the import and context of that demonstration.

'Memory' is not representative but continually reconstructed.

THere are none so blind as those that will not see.

[icabodcrane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique

So you re suggesting Gerry's memory of doing his check by way of the front door using a key had been 'implanted'   in his mind using the 'lost in the mall technique'

Who did this implanting then ? 

tsk tsk,  what nonsense

You have obviously failed to understand the import and context of that demonstration.

'Memory' is not representative but continually reconstructed.

THere are none so blind as those that will not see.

The article you quoted is not about memory being  'continually reconstructed'  at all !

It is about the theory that  'false'   memories  can be 'implanted'  in someone's mind by someone else

How can that be of any significance in Gerry's case ?   

[debunker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique

So you re suggesting Gerry's memory of doing his check by way of the front door using a key had been 'implanted'   in his mind using the 'lost in the mall technique'

Who did this implanting then ? 

tsk tsk,  what nonsense

You have obviously failed to understand the import and context of that demonstrationn.

'Memory' is not representative but continually reconstructed.

THere are none so blind as those that will not see.

The article you quoted is not about memory being  'continually reconstructed'  at all !

It is about the theory that  'false'   memories  can be 'implanted'  in someone's mind by someone else

How can that be of any significance in Gerry's case ?

Because it is part of the evidence that memory is not a video recording but a set of continual reconstructions, some of which may be implanted, some may just be in error.

[icabodcrane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique

So you re suggesting Gerry's memory of doing his check by way of the front door using a key had been 'implanted'   in his mind using the 'lost in the mall technique'

Who did this implanting then ? 

tsk tsk,  what nonsense

You have obviously failed to understand the import and context of that demonstrationn.

'Memory' is not representative but continually reconstructed.

THere are none so blind as those that will not see.

The article you quoted is not about memory being  'continually reconstructed'  at all !

It is about the theory that  'false'   memories  can be 'implanted'  in someone's mind by someone else

How can that be of any significance in Gerry's case ?

Because it is part of the evidence that memory is not a video recording but a set of continual reconstructions, some of which may be implanted, some may just be in error.

Does your theory lead you to doubt Jane Tanner's sighting of an abductor  ?  ...  was that, perhaps an 'implanted' or 'false'  memory ?

[debunker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique

So you re suggesting Gerry's memory of doing his check by way of the front door using a key had been 'implanted'   in his mind using the 'lost in the mall technique'

Who did this implanting then ? 

tsk tsk,  what nonsense

You have obviously failed to understand the import and context of that demonstrationn.

'Memory' is not representative but continually reconstructed.

THere are none so blind as those that will not see.

The article you quoted is not about memory being  'continually reconstructed'  at all !

It is about the theory that  'false'   memories  can be 'implanted'  in someone's mind by someone else

How can that be of any significance in Gerry's case ?

Because it is part of the evidence that memory is not a video recording but a set of continual reconstructions, some of which may be implanted, some may just be in error.

Does your theory lead you to doubt Jane Tanner's sighting of an abductor  ?  ...  was that, perhaps an 'implanted' or 'false'  memory ?

There is a difference between. Recall and memory recollections over time.

[icabodcrane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique

So you re suggesting Gerry's memory of doing his check by way of the front door using a key had been 'implanted'   in his mind using the 'lost in the mall technique'

Who did this implanting then ? 

tsk tsk,  what nonsense

You have obviously failed to understand the import and context of that demonstrationn.

'Memory' is not representative but continually reconstructed.

THere are none so blind as those that will not see.

The article you quoted is not about memory being  'continually reconstructed'  at all !

It is about the theory that  'false'   memories  can be 'implanted'  in someone's mind by someone else

How can that be of any significance in Gerry's case ?

Because it is part of the evidence that memory is not a video recording but a set of continual reconstructions, some of which may be implanted, some may just be in error.

Does your theory lead you to doubt Jane Tanner's sighting of an abductor  ?  ...  was that, perhaps an 'implanted' or 'false'  memory ?

There is a difference between. Recall and memory recollections over time.

...  and there is a difference between a false memory and a lie

Do you accept the possibility of that  less complex explanation for Gerry's conflicting statements  ...  that one of them may, simply, have been a lie ? 

[amaraltheofficeboy]

there you go with the negative vibrations again icabodcrane

[Redblossom]

So, when does a changed statement become a lie then? Rather than an improved memory?
 >@@(*&)

[debunker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique

So you re suggesting Gerry's memory of doing his check by way of the front door using a key had been 'implanted'   in his mind using the 'lost in the mall technique'

Who did this implanting then ? 

tsk tsk,  what nonsense

You have obviously failed to understand the import and context of that demonstrationn.

'Memory' is not representative but continually reconstructed.

THere are none so blind as those that will not see.

The article you quoted is not about memory being  'continually reconstructed'  at all !

It is about the theory that  'false'   memories  can be 'implanted'  in someone's mind by someone else

How can that be of any significance in Gerry's case ?

Because it is part of the evidence that memory is not a video recording but a set of continual reconstructions, some of which may be implanted, some may just be in error.

Does your theory lead you to doubt Jane Tanner's sighting of an abductor  ?  ...  was that, perhaps an 'implanted' or 'false'  memory ?

k

There is a difference between. Recall and memory recollections over time.

...  and there is a difference between a false memory and a lie

Do you accept the possibility of that  less complex explanation for Gerry's conflicting statements  ...  that one of them may, simply, have been a lie ?

What do you mean by ' a lie'. The word is frequently misused on [ censored word ] forums.

[muratfan]

Ah.  So for the police officers in question there will have been a number of missing children cases in PdL, with all manner of parents behaving in different ways , which meant that they got a bit mixed up and forgetful,  but all suddenly remembered in a blinding flash 5 months later.  Thanks for the explanation CEdwards, it's all clear now.

And you wonder why I question your intelligence?

The police have many cases.  They don't have to be specifically the same in order to cause confusion in similarities in recall.  Any emotional adult would cloud their recall I'd have thought. 

Personally I doubt anyone's recall improving.  Recalling additional facts, yes. Improving details of existing facts, no.  Hence me not believing Gerry McCann for a minute changing his mind on which door he used.

That is why competent Police Officers write in their pocket books, make statements the same day, or do a hand over sheet, s they get all the information down as soon as possible.

Lazy, incompetent officers do not, and rely on what others tell them to write.
 
In fact the Officers statements  were written after the McCanns were arquidos and had returned to the UK...Obviously important information was never passed onto anybody then...

As for the praying and banging on the floor... hmm let me think..your child has gone missing, useless incompetent Police are on the scene and nobody doing anything, yes I would bang my fists on the floor in frustration

[Redblossom]

So, when does a changed statement become a lie then? Rather than an improved memory?
 >@@(*&)

Bump

[C.Edwards]

Let me guess at this one Redblossom. It's a lie when it's anti-McCann and improved memory when it's favourable to the McCanns is my guess.

[peter claridge]

Let me guess at this one Redblossom. It's a lie when it's anti-McCann and improved memory when it's favourable to the McCanns is my guess.

I think you could be onto something there..

[debunker]

Let me guess at this one Redblossom. It's a lie when it's anti-McCann and improved memory when it's favourable to the McCanns is my guess.

Memory for McCanns and others is constructed, not movies.