Do witness discrepancies point to lies or are they just improved memory?

[Benice]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it. 

[Eleanor]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it.

This what we have had to deal with for the last six years.  And don't imagine that these people don't know the difference.  Of course they do.  It just suits them to say that these things are lies.  Not that it actually makes any difference.  All rather pointless really, and only serves to prove that they don't know what they are talking about.

[icabodcrane]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it.

...  and when Gerry said he entered the apartment through the front door using his key that night ...  it was an opinion  ?

...  and when he later changed his mind and said he entered the apartment through the open patio doors  ?  it was what ?  ...  a change  of opinion ?

Is there a possibility,  do you think, that one of those statements was a lie ...  a straight forward ...  in your face ... LIE !

[peter claridge]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it.

When Kate and Gerry had the abductor entering through the window they claimed to have a clear view of the rear of the apartment, when they had the abductor entering through the unlocked patio doors they were looking the other way.  Which catergory does this fall into?

[DevilsAdvocate]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Hi Eleanor, that is most probably the best definition of a lie that I have ever heard !

[Eleanor]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Hi Eleanor, that is most probably the best definition of a lie that I have ever heard !

Thank You.  But it isn't difficult, is it.  And anyone who pretends otherwise is a liar.  Think about that.

[DevilsAdvocate]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Hi Eleanor, that is most probably the best definition of a lie that I have ever heard !

Thank You.  But it isn't difficult, is it.  And anyone who pretends otherwise is a liar.  Think about that.

Very true !!

[Benice]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it.

...  and when Gerry said he entered the apartment through the front door using his key that night ...  it was an opinion  ?

...  and when he later changed his mind and said he entered the apartment through the open patio doors  ?  it was what ?  ...  a change  of opinion ?

Is there a possibility,  do you think, that one of those statements was a lie ...  a straight forward ...  in your face ... LIE !

No I dont' think he lied.  This was his first interview on 4th May.  He'd had no sleep and was obvously in the most terrible state -  his mind must have been all over the place.  This was also the first interview for the PJ policeman who may not have been familiar with the layout of 5A.  To make matters worse there was the language barrier to contend with, with everything having to be translated back and forth.   The whole situation IMO was ripe for misunderstandings and mistranslations on both sides.

If you read Jane Tanners rog interview, the police officer refers to the previous confusion caused because of the patio doors being described as the Front door and the door facing out onto the carpark as the Back door.  She suggests that they call the patio door the Poolside door and the other door the Roadside door in order to avoid similar confusion.     I think it is possible that this is where the confusion arose with GMs interview.   Unfortunately we only have a summary of that interview and so do not know the precise questions that were asked. 

[icabodcrane]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it.

...  and when Gerry said he entered the apartment through the front door using his key that night ...  it was an opinion  ?

...  and when he later changed his mind and said he entered the apartment through the open patio doors  ?  it was what ?  ...  a change  of opinion ?

Is there a possibility,  do you think, that one of those statements was a lie ...  a straight forward ...  in your face ... LIE !

No I dont' think he lied.  This was his first interview on 4th May.  He'd had no sleep and was obvously in the most terrible state -  his mind must have been all over the place.  This was also the first interview for the PJ policeman who may not have been familiar with the layout of 5A.  To make matters worse there was the language barrier to contend with, with everything having to be translated back and forth.   The whole situation IMO was ripe for misunderstandings and mistranslations on both sides.

If you read Jane Tanners rog interview, the police officer refers to the previous confusion caused because of the patio doors being described as the Front door and the door facing out onto the carpark as the Back door.  She suggests that they call the patio door the Poolside door and the other door the Roadside door in order to avoid similar confusion.     I think it is possible that this is where the confusion arose with GMs interview.   Unfortunately we only have a summary of that interview and so do not know the precise questions that were asked.

You may be right

It may have been that Gerry McCann was distraught and not thinking clearly ... or that the translation  'got lost' 

All that is possible

[peter claridge]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it.

...  and when Gerry said he entered the apartment through the front door using his key that night ...  it was an opinion  ?

...  and when he later changed his mind and said he entered the apartment through the open patio doors  ?  it was what ?  ...  a change  of opinion ?

Is there a possibility,  do you think, that one of those statements was a lie ...  a straight forward ...  in your face ... LIE !

No I dont' think he lied.  This was his first interview on 4th May.  He'd had no sleep and was obvously in the most terrible state -  his mind must have been all over the place.  This was also the first interview for the PJ policeman who may not have been familiar with the layout of 5A.  To make matters worse there was the language barrier to contend with, with everything having to be translated back and forth.   The whole situation IMO was ripe for misunderstandings and mistranslations on both sides.

If you read Jane Tanners rog interview, the police officer refers to the previous confusion caused because of the patio doors being described as the Front door and the door facing out onto the carpark as the Back door.  She suggests that they call the patio door the Poolside door and the other door the Roadside door in order to avoid similar confusion.     I think it is possible that this is where the confusion arose with GMs interview.   Unfortunately we only have a summary of that interview and so do not know the precise questions that were asked.

But in that very interview he has Mathew Oldfield entering through the unlocked patio doors.  I think you're correct Gerry was confused but in his defence they had only fabricated the timeline a few hours earlier!
Any thoughts yet on their change of seating arrangements at the tapas bar?

[sadie]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it.

...  and when Gerry said he entered the apartment through the front door using his key that night ...  it was an opinion  ?

...  and when he later changed his mind and said he entered the apartment through the open patio doors  ?  it was what ?  ...  a change  of opinion ?

Is there a possibility,  do you think, that one of those statements was a lie ...  a straight forward ...  in your face ... LIE !

No I dont' think he lied.  This was his first interview on 4th May.  He'd had no sleep and was obvously in the most terrible state -  his mind must have been all over the place.  This was also the first interview for the PJ policeman who may not have been familiar with the layout of 5A.  To make matters worse there was the language barrier to contend with, with everything having to be translated back and forth.   The whole situation IMO was ripe for misunderstandings and mistranslations on both sides.

If you read Jane Tanners rog interview, the police officer refers to the previous confusion caused because of the patio doors being described as the Front door and the door facing out onto the carpark as the Back door.  She suggests that they call the patio door the Poolside door and the other door the Roadside door in order to avoid similar confusion.     I think it is possible that this is where the confusion arose with GMs interview.   Unfortunately we only have a summary of that interview and so do not know the precise questions that were asked.

But in that very interview he has Mathew Oldfield entering through the unlocked patio doors.  I think you're correct Gerry was confused but in his defence they had only fabricated the timeline a few hours earlier!
Any thoughts yet on their change of seating arrangements at the tapas bar?

Aw, Peter.  You are at it again.  Saying as fact that gerry and Co fabricated the time line.  You dont even have the decency to slip in a word like "apparently" fabricated ....

I have no idea if the seating arrangements changed at the table, or not, but we used to attend regular wine tasting parties with about 10 -18 guests at the dinner table.  It was expected of us that we changed around to chat with other people between courses.  That we mixed.  Maybe you do not attend gatherings of people for dinner?

[debunker]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it.

...  and when Gerry said he entered the apartment through the front door using his key that night ...  it was an opinion  ?

...  and when he later changed his mind and said he entered the apartment through the open patio doors  ?  it was what ?  ...  a change  of opinion ?

Is there a possibility,  do you think, that one of those statements was a lie ...  a straight forward ...  in your face ... LIE !

The difference is that educated rational people can make the intellectual effort to understand that it could be a lie or it could be a memory that was incorrect. Further such people realise that the only way they can know it was a lie was by knowing what was in Gerry's mind at the time, and being intelligent and rational, they know that they cannot know that as they are not telepathic. Therefore they speak of 'errors' preferring to be correct rather than incorrect.

[ censored word ]s call them lies because, although they have no proof of it, it suits there defamatory agenda.

[debunker]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it.

...  and when Gerry said he entered the apartment through the front door using his key that night ...  it was an opinion  ?

...  and when he later changed his mind and said he entered the apartment through the open patio doors  ?  it was what ?  ...  a change  of opinion ?

Is there a possibility,  do you think, that one of those statements was a lie ...  a straight forward ...  in your face ... LIE !

No I dont' think he lied.  This was his first interview on 4th May.  He'd had no sleep and was obvously in the most terrible state -  his mind must have been all over the place.  This was also the first interview for the PJ policeman who may not have been familiar with the layout of 5A.  To make matters worse there was the language barrier to contend with, with everything having to be translated back and forth.   The whole situation IMO was ripe for misunderstandings and mistranslations on both sides.

If you read Jane Tanners rog interview, the police officer refers to the previous confusion caused because of the patio doors being described as the Front door and the door facing out onto the carpark as the Back door.  She suggests that they call the patio door the Poolside door and the other door the Roadside door in order to avoid similar confusion.     I think it is possible that this is where the confusion arose with GMs interview.   Unfortunately we only have a summary of that interview and so do not know the precise questions that were asked.

You may be right

It may have been that Gerry McCann was distraught and not thinking clearly ... or that the translation  'got lost' 

All that is possible

So the statement that Gerry was 'lying' is in error.

[debunker]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it.

...  and when Gerry said he entered the apartment through the front door using his key that night ...  it was an opinion  ?

...  and when he later changed his mind and said he entered the apartment through the open patio doors  ?  it was what ?  ...  a change  of opinion ?

Is there a possibility,  do you think, that one of those statements was a lie ...  a straight forward ...  in your face ... LIE !

No I dont' think he lied.  This was his first interview on 4th May.  He'd had no sleep and was obvously in the most terrible state -  his mind must have been all over the place.  This was also the first interview for the PJ policeman who may not have been familiar with the layout of 5A.  To make matters worse there was the language barrier to contend with, with everything having to be translated back and forth.   The whole situation IMO was ripe for misunderstandings and mistranslations on both sides.

If you read Jane Tanners rog interview, the police officer refers to the previous confusion caused because of the patio doors being described as the Front door and the door facing out onto the carpark as the Back door.  She suggests that they call the patio door the Poolside door and the other door the Roadside door in order to avoid similar confusion.     I think it is possible that this is where the confusion arose with GMs interview.   Unfortunately we only have a summary of that interview and so do not know the precise questions that were asked.

But in that very interview he has Mathew Oldfield entering through the unlocked patio doors.  I think you're correct Gerry was confused but in his defence they had only fabricated the timeline a few hours earlier!
Any thoughts yet on their change of seating arrangements at the tapas bar?

Nice fairy tale. Telepathic are you?

[icabodcrane]

No.  A lie is when you tell a deliberate untruth with the intention to deceive.

Agreed.  I am constantly amazed at the inability of some to differentiate between a lie and an opinion.

As you say, a lie is when you know that what you are saying is untrue and is done deliberately to deceive.

An opinion is when you genuinely believe what you are saying is true, but which may not necessarily be true.

For example.   When Kate said the shutters had been jemmied (or words to that effect) then it was because she genuinely thought that is what must have happened as she believed  they had been left closed and locked.   It was her opinion at the time.   It was also what any normal person would have concluded.    On being told later that there was no sign of the shutters being forced, then she would have to revise her thinking based on that new information.     At no time does 'lying' even come into it.

...  and when Gerry said he entered the apartment through the front door using his key that night ...  it was an opinion  ?

...  and when he later changed his mind and said he entered the apartment through the open patio doors  ?  it was what ?  ...  a change  of opinion ?

Is there a possibility,  do you think, that one of those statements was a lie ...  a straight forward ...  in your face ... LIE !

No I dont' think he lied.  This was his first interview on 4th May.  He'd had no sleep and was obvously in the most terrible state -  his mind must have been all over the place.  This was also the first interview for the PJ policeman who may not have been familiar with the layout of 5A.  To make matters worse there was the language barrier to contend with, with everything having to be translated back and forth.   The whole situation IMO was ripe for misunderstandings and mistranslations on both sides.

If you read Jane Tanners rog interview, the police officer refers to the previous confusion caused because of the patio doors being described as the Front door and the door facing out onto the carpark as the Back door.  She suggests that they call the patio door the Poolside door and the other door the Roadside door in order to avoid similar confusion.     I think it is possible that this is where the confusion arose with GMs interview.   Unfortunately we only have a summary of that interview and so do not know the precise questions that were asked.

You may be right

It may have been that Gerry McCann was distraught and not thinking clearly ... or that the translation  'got lost' 

All that is possible

So the statement that Gerry was 'lying' is in error.

Gerry McCann having lied with the intention to deceive is also a posssibility