A Question For The "Sceptics"....

[Carana]

I don't think anyone should just  'accept' it,  if Scotland Yard suspect an abduction

Madeleine is a British child,  and if British police declare that they believe she was snatched from her bed by an abductor,  then they bloody well better keep on investigating until they find out  who abducted her,  and catch him

It would be a disgrace if they just said  that they think she was abducted and that's that,  review over,  the end

I don't know if UK hands would be tied legally or not. A bit of a difficult situation.

I'm not even sure what the current legal framework is concerning the review... Is a prosecutor following it? It seems to be a bit of a grey area at the moment.

PT is a sovereign nation - the disappearance happened on PT soil

NSY can advise until the cows come home

I know. To reopen it, they need new evidence that is likely to lead the investigation to a conclusion, but if no one is seriously checking out any potential new information, it won't happen.

Hence the hope that the review will throw up some red flags, but I would have thought that they would need to be actionable - which may not be easy 6 years later.

I can't imagine, if a prosecutor is overseeing the review, that a hypothetical dangerous person who was around at the time but fell through the net would not be investigated as the review progresses. At least I hope not. But does that require formally reopening the case in order to make enquiries?

[Redblossom]

All suspicious people were investigated at the time, its only the Mccanns who have flagged them up again as suspects

And the  newspapers, and their PR merchant lying about things
 >@@(*&)

[Carana]

I don't think anyone should just  'accept' it,  if Scotland Yard suspect an abduction

Madeleine is a British child,  and if British police declare that they believe she was snatched from her bed by an abductor,  then they bloody well better keep on investigating until they find out  who abducted her,  and catch him

It would be a disgrace if they just said  that they think she was abducted and that's that,  review over,  the end

I don't know if UK hands would be tied legally or not. A bit of a difficult situation.

I'm not even sure what the current legal framework is concerning the review... Is a prosecutor following it? It seems to be a bit of a grey area at the moment.

I think the Uk can bring a charge on someone here if a crime was committed abroad, but only for rape murder or manslaughter

I'm checking - that's what I thought as well.

There's this re sex offences against children, but the perpetrator would have to be a UK citizen or resident:

—    Sexual Offences (Conspiracy and Incitement) Act 1996, Sex Offenders Act 1997, Criminal Justice (Terrorism and Conspiracy) Act 1998, Sexual Offences Act 1956

Description

Schedule II of the Sex Offenders Act 1997 gives courts in the United Kingdom jurisdiction to prosecute UK citizens and residents who commit sex offences against children abroad. This law applies to British citizens and residents, and is applicable even where the person in question was not a British citizen or UK resident at the time of the offence but has subsequently become one. The Sexual Offences (Conspiracy and Incitement) Act 1996 makes it an offence for a person in the UK (under any circumstances outlined above) to incite others to commit a child sex offence abroad, or to conspire to do so. Therefore, it covers, for example, tour operators who organize travel abroad for the purpose of sex tourism.

Double criminality is required in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

If a person has been convicted or acquitted of a crime in another country, they cannot be prosecuted for the same crime in the UK.
http://www.thefuturegroup.org/youwillbecaught/law_UK.html

[Eleanor]

Unless they can identify a possible suspect then there won't be much they can do.  Although putting all possible leads into a computer programme could point to a route or a direction, it will be very difficult to come up with any names.  But I suppose it might point to a destination.  Or they might track down someone else who saw Madeleine en route.
SY probably wouldn't be allowed to investigate in Portugal, or even in other foreign countries, but they can liaise with other Police Forces.

Sorry if that is garbled, I am just rambling some thoughts around.  Finding new evidence after all this time was always going to be difficult, but someone has to try.

[Redblossom]

thanks Carana, I never said I was an expert on the matter, just reiterated what I have read in general about what crimes canbe prosecuted here if committed abroad

[Redblossom]

Oh dear, everyone's lying and being dishonest to Redblossom

it is a fact that ........... .............. has lied and it is a fact that newspapers have printed lies and twisted evidence, you might not want to believe it but that is YOUR problem,its not anyone elses mich,  most intelligent people KNOW this to be the truth, your gas mark has just been turned off
 8-)(--)

[Carana]

thanks Carana, I never said I was an expert on the matter, just reiterated what I have read in general about what crimes canbe prosecuted here if committed abroad

My question is still how can the UK proceed if a suspected perp in need of more serious investigation was a non-UK resident for a serious crime committed overseas? I'm not sure they could...

[Redblossom]

thanks Carana, I never said I was an expert on the matter, just reiterated what I have read in general about what crimes canbe prosecuted here if committed abroad

My question is still how can the UK proceed if a suspected perp in need of more serious investigation was a non-UK resident for a serious crime committed overseas? I'm not sure they could...

they cant unless the portuguese reopen the case IMO in my understanding etc

[Eleanor]

thanks Carana, I never said I was an expert on the matter, just reiterated what I have read in general about what crimes canbe prosecuted here if committed abroad

My question is still how can the UK proceed if a suspected perp in need of more serious investigation was a non-UK resident for a serious crime committed overseas? I'm not sure they could...

They couldn't.  SY would have to engage the police force of that country.  All of whom I'm sure would help.

[registrar]

thanks Carana, I never said I was an expert on the matter, just reiterated what I have read in general about what crimes canbe prosecuted here if committed abroad

My question is still how can the UK proceed if a suspected perp in need of more serious investigation was a non-UK resident for a serious crime committed overseas? I'm not sure they could...

NSY have gone to great pains to show that PT has juristiction on PT matters - as it should be

so there'll be advice and warm tea from NSY

nothing more/nothing less

[Carana]

Unless they can identify a possible suspect then there won't be much they can do.  Although putting all possible leads into a computer programme could point to a route or a direction, it will be very difficult to come up with any names.  But I suppose it might point to a destination.  Or they might track down someone else who saw Madeleine en route.
SY probably wouldn't be allowed to investigate in Portugal, or even in other foreign countries, but they can liaise with other Police Forces.

Sorry if that is garbled, I am just rambling some thoughts around.  Finding new evidence after all this time was always going to be difficult, but someone has to try.

But who has the lead (and authority) to initiate liaison with foreign police forces if the case is not reopened?

[registrar]

Unless they can identify a possible suspect then there won't be much they can do.  Although putting all possible leads into a computer programme could point to a route or a direction, it will be very difficult to come up with any names.  But I suppose it might point to a destination.  Or they might track down someone else who saw Madeleine en route.
SY probably wouldn't be allowed to investigate in Portugal, or even in other foreign countries, but they can liaise with other Police Forces.

Sorry if that is garbled, I am just rambling some thoughts around.  Finding new evidence after all this time was always going to be difficult, but someone has to try.

But who has the lead (and authority) to initiate liaison with foreign police forces if the case is not reopened?

Any movement has to come from Lisbon

[Eleanor]

Unless they can identify a possible suspect then there won't be much they can do.  Although putting all possible leads into a computer programme could point to a route or a direction, it will be very difficult to come up with any names.  But I suppose it might point to a destination.  Or they might track down someone else who saw Madeleine en route.
SY probably wouldn't be allowed to investigate in Portugal, or even in other foreign countries, but they can liaise with other Police Forces.

Sorry if that is garbled, I am just rambling some thoughts around.  Finding new evidence after all this time was always going to be difficult, but someone has to try.

But who has the lead (and authority) to initiate liaison with foreign police forces if the case is not reopened?

Someone in authority at SY has to go to the foreign police force and say that this is what they think happened , and why.

[registrar]

Unless they can identify a possible suspect then there won't be much they can do.  Although putting all possible leads into a computer programme could point to a route or a direction, it will be very difficult to come up with any names.  But I suppose it might point to a destination.  Or they might track down someone else who saw Madeleine en route.
SY probably wouldn't be allowed to investigate in Portugal, or even in other foreign countries, but they can liaise with other Police Forces.

Sorry if that is garbled, I am just rambling some thoughts around.  Finding new evidence after all this time was always going to be difficult, but someone has to try.

But who has the lead (and authority) to initiate liaison with foreign police forces if the case is not reopened?

Someone in authority at SY has to go to the foreign police force and say that this is what they think happened , and why.

That ain't going to happen-

Cameron green lighted the NSY review - thus the whole review is a political issue

and even if a UK copper found a smoking gun - he'd still have to clear disclosure with Nr. 10

sad, sobering and maybe cruel - but such is life

[registrar]

Unless they can identify a possible suspect then there won't be much they can do.  Although putting all possible leads into a computer programme could point to a route or a direction, it will be very difficult to come up with any names.  But I suppose it might point to a destination.  Or they might track down someone else who saw Madeleine en route.
SY probably wouldn't be allowed to investigate in Portugal, or even in other foreign countries, but they can liaise with other Police Forces.

Sorry if that is garbled, I am just rambling some thoughts around.  Finding new evidence after all this time was always going to be difficult, but someone has to try.

But who has the lead (and authority) to initiate liaison with foreign police forces if the case is not reopened?

Someone in authority at SY has to go to the foreign police force and say that this is what they think happened , and why.

That ain't going to happen-

Cameron green lighted the NSY review - thus the whole review is a political issue

and even if a UK copper found a smoking gun - he'd still have to clear disclosure with Nr. 10

sad, sobering and maybe cruel - but such is life