Portuguese Sex Offenders and Alert Mechanisms

[Carana]

Did PT have a database of all offenders  or suspects at the time? Including the DNA and fingerprints of all offenders with the means of cross-checking suspects/ offenders of any kind back in 2007?

Across the GNR/PJ/PSP police spectrum?

[AnneGuedes]

Did PT have a database of all offenders  or suspects at the time? Including the DNA and fingerprints of all offenders with the means of cross-checking suspects/ offenders of any kind back in 2007?

Across the GNR/PJ/PSP police spectrum?

A database isn't of much help if crime scene objects have been ingenuously manipulated by witnesses before the arrival of the police.
Portugal, for instance, had no knowledge that British paedophiles on parole were residents in the Algarve before British police took the initiative to send the list.

[Carana]

Did PT have a database of all offenders  or suspects at the time? Including the DNA and fingerprints of all offenders with the means of cross-checking suspects/ offenders of any kind back in 2007?

Across the GNR/PJ/PSP police spectrum?

A database isn't of much help if crime scene objects have been ingenuously manipulated by witnesses before the arrival of the police.
Portugal, for instance, had no knowledge that British paedophiles on parole were residents in the Algarve before British police took the initiative to send the list.

How do you know that?

Did Portugal have a database of their own sex offenders at the time?

My main point on this thread is not a criticism of the handling of this case in particular (a different issue).

There is a broader issue of transnational cooperation, with issues involving laws in different jurisdictions, and a basic trust that any exchange of confidential information will not be leaked to the latest tabloid journalist.

[ferryman]

How do you know that?

Did Portugal have a database of their own sex offenders at the time?

My main point on this thread is not a criticism of the handling of this case in particular (a different issue).

There is a broader issue of transnational cooperation, with issues involving laws in different jurisdictions, and a basic trust that any exchange of confidential information will not be leaked to the latest tabloid journalist.

I can answer that, no they didn't.  I distinctly remember debating this way back and I found a link that confirmed they didn't.  They have implemented one since.

I'm not sure I could find the link again ...

[AnneGuedes]

Portugal, for instance, had no knowledge that British paedophiles on parole were residents in the Algarve before British police took the initiative to send the list.

How do you know that?

Did Portugal have a database of their own sex offenders at the time?

My main point on this thread is not a criticism of the handling of this case in particular (a different issue).

There is a broader issue of transnational cooperation, with issues involving laws in different jurisdictions, and a basic trust that any exchange of confidential information will not be leaked to the latest tabloid journalist.

This is documented in the files. All these offenders were checked and proven innocent. This is why the British came to Portimao after the case was shelved : they wanted the list to be excluded from the PJ Files.
Don't forget that belonging Europol implies certain requirements. It is a work in progress.

[Carana]

Portugal, for instance, had no knowledge that British paedophiles on parole were residents in the Algarve before British police took the initiative to send the list.

How do you know that?

Did Portugal have a database of their own sex offenders at the time?

My main point on this thread is not a criticism of the handling of this case in particular (a different issue).

There is a broader issue of transnational cooperation, with issues involving laws in different jurisdictions, and a basic trust that any exchange of confidential information will not be leaked to the latest tabloid journalist.

This is documented in the files. All these offenders were checked and proven innocent. This is why the British came to Portimao after the case was shelved : they wanted the list to be excluded from the PJ Files.
Don't forget that belonging Europol implies certain requirements. It is a work in progress.

Hmmmm. Anne, my impression is that the situation is a bit more complicated than that.

[AnneGuedes]

Portugal, for instance, had no knowledge that British paedophiles on parole were residents in the Algarve before British police took the initiative to send the list.

How do you know that?

Did Portugal have a database of their own sex offenders at the time?

My main point on this thread is not a criticism of the handling of this case in particular (a different issue).

There is a broader issue of transnational cooperation, with issues involving laws in different jurisdictions, and a basic trust that any exchange of confidential information will not be leaked to the latest tabloid journalist.

This is documented in the files. All these offenders were checked and proven innocent. This is why the British came to Portimao after the case was shelved : they wanted the list to be excluded from the PJ Files.
Don't forget that belonging Europol implies certain requirements. It is a work in progress.

Hmmmm. Anne, my impression is that the situation is a bit more complicated than that.

All I know is about those British paedophiles. As a mother, I was chocked when I read it in a newspaper. I found the cooperation was weird : without the disappearance of a British little girl the PJ would never have been informed of those British predators. But they weren't found suspects and I can understand their names aren't in the files.

[Carana]

Portugal, for instance, had no knowledge that British paedophiles on parole were residents in the Algarve before British police took the initiative to send the list.

How do you know that?

Did Portugal have a database of their own sex offenders at the time?

My main point on this thread is not a criticism of the handling of this case in particular (a different issue).

There is a broader issue of transnational cooperation, with issues involving laws in different jurisdictions, and a basic trust that any exchange of confidential information will not be leaked to the latest tabloid journalist.

This is documented in the files. All these offenders were checked and proven innocent. This is why the British came to Portimao after the case was shelved : they wanted the list to be excluded from the PJ Files.
Don't forget that belonging Europol implies certain requirements. It is a work in progress.

Hmmmm. Anne, my impression is that the situation is a bit more complicated than that.

All I know is about those British paedophiles. As a mother, I was chocked when I read it in a newspaper. I found the cooperation was weird : without the disappearance of a British little girl the PJ would never have been informed of those British predators. But they weren't found suspects and I can understand their names aren't in the files.

Did the PT police have a register of their own sex offenders?
Has an offender database of any sort - even between the GNR/PJ/PSP actually been established? There was press noise... but I'm not sure what is actually in place. Have you found anything reliable on this subject?

[ferryman]

Portugal, for instance, had no knowledge that British paedophiles on parole were residents in the Algarve before British police took the initiative to send the list.

How do you know that?

Did Portugal have a database of their own sex offenders at the time?

My main point on this thread is not a criticism of the handling of this case in particular (a different issue).

There is a broader issue of transnational cooperation, with issues involving laws in different jurisdictions, and a basic trust that any exchange of confidential information will not be leaked to the latest tabloid journalist.

This is documented in the files. All these offenders were checked and proven innocent. This is why the British came to Portimao after the case was shelved : they wanted the list to be excluded from the PJ Files.
Don't forget that belonging Europol implies certain requirements. It is a work in progress.

Hmmmm. Anne, my impression is that the situation is a bit more complicated than that.

All I know is about those British paedophiles. As a mother, I was chocked when I read it in a newspaper. I found the cooperation was weird : without the disappearance of a British little girl the PJ would never have been informed of those British predators. But they weren't found suspects and I can understand their names aren't in the files.

Did the PT police have a register of their own sex offenders?
Has an offender database of any sort - even between the GNR/PJ/PSP actually been established? There was press noise... but I'm not sure what is actually in place. Have you found anything reliable on this subject?

E-mail petition for EU Sex Offenders Register
IN GENERAL · 19-05-2007 00:00:00 · 0 COMMENTS
In the wake of four-year-old Madeleine McCann’s dissapearence, a petition requesting the European Parliament to implement a Sex Offernders Register similar to that of the USA, has been launched on the internet.

A letter accompanying the online petition states: “Following the recent abduction of Madeline McCann, Portugal has been reported in the press as a “Haven for Paedophiles”. One of the main assumptions for this being the absence of a Sex Offenders Register”.
It goes on to exlpain: “Offenders convicted of serious sexual offences must keep the police informed about where they are living, and any change of address. The length of time a person’s details are kept on file is determined by their sentence. Anyone jailed for 30 months or more for a sexual offence remains on the register for the rest of their life. The penalty for failing to comply can be a heavy fine or a prison sentence. Courts can impose a Sex Offenders Order to place restrictions on the movements of an offender considered to pose a threat to the public. Sex offenders can be ordered to stay away from schools, parks, playgrounds and other places where children gather”.
The American version of the Sex Offernders Register (http://www.sexoffendersusa.com) allows members of the public to freely access information regarding the whereabouts of convicted sexual offenders.
In the few days it has been circulationg, the petition has already attined nearly 1,000 signitures from all over Europe and beyond.
If you would like to read more about the petition, sign it or spread the word, go to: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/esor2007/

[Carana]

Portugal, for instance, had no knowledge that British paedophiles on parole were residents in the Algarve before British police took the initiative to send the list.

How do you know that?

Did Portugal have a database of their own sex offenders at the time?

My main point on this thread is not a criticism of the handling of this case in particular (a different issue).

There is a broader issue of transnational cooperation, with issues involving laws in different jurisdictions, and a basic trust that any exchange of confidential information will not be leaked to the latest tabloid journalist.

This is documented in the files. All these offenders were checked and proven innocent. This is why the British came to Portimao after the case was shelved : they wanted the list to be excluded from the PJ Files.
Don't forget that belonging Europol implies certain requirements. It is a work in progress.

Hmmmm. Anne, my impression is that the situation is a bit more complicated than that.

All I know is about those British paedophiles. As a mother, I was chocked when I read it in a newspaper. I found the cooperation was weird : without the disappearance of a British little girl the PJ would never have been informed of those British predators. But they weren't found suspects and I can understand their names aren't in the files.

Did the PT police have a register of their own sex offenders?
Has an offender database of any sort - even between the GNR/PJ/PSP actually been established? There was press noise... but I'm not sure what is actually in place. Have you found anything reliable on this subject?

E-mail petition for EU Sex Offenders Register
IN GENERAL · 19-05-2007 00:00:00 · 0 COMMENTS
In the wake of four-year-old Madeleine McCann’s dissapearence, a petition requesting the European Parliament to implement a Sex Offernders Register similar to that of the USA, has been launched on the internet.

A letter accompanying the online petition states: “Following the recent abduction of Madeline McCann, Portugal has been reported in the press as a “Haven for Paedophiles”. One of the main assumptions for this being the absence of a Sex Offenders Register”.
It goes on to exlpain: “Offenders convicted of serious sexual offences must keep the police informed about where they are living, and any change of address. The length of time a person’s details are kept on file is determined by their sentence. Anyone jailed for 30 months or more for a sexual offence remains on the register for the rest of their life. The penalty for failing to comply can be a heavy fine or a prison sentence. Courts can impose a Sex Offenders Order to place restrictions on the movements of an offender considered to pose a threat to the public. Sex offenders can be ordered to stay away from schools, parks, playgrounds and other places where children gather”.
The American version of the Sex Offernders Register (http://www.sexoffendersusa.com) allows members of the public to freely access information regarding the whereabouts of convicted sexual offenders.
In the few days it has been circulationg, the petition has already attined nearly 1,000 signitures from all over Europe and beyond.
If you would like to read more about the petition, sign it or spread the word, go to: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/esor2007/

Thanks Ferryman.

I just found this:

Declassified
*
AS/Jur (2008) 51
4 November 2008
ajdoc51 2008
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights
For a Europe-wide sex offenders register


Very few countries in Europe had a sex offender database (ETA: register). Some were in the process of thinking about it.

Very few had an abduction alert, either.

http://assembly.coe.int/CommitteeDocs/2010/20081104_ajdoc51.pdf

[AnneGuedes]

Thank you, Carana, for this interesting document that shows countries have different views on the topic. However UE countries have managed to agree on a hotline nb and cooperation  which is really a progress. You've read that one of the difficulties concerning a specific offenders' register is it has certain repercussions on sex offenders' privacy and reintegration into society.
Had Portugal an abduction alert device in 2007 (as France), it couldn't have be used in Madeleine's case, since one of the criteria is proven or highly probable (breaking in) abduction. 

[debunker]

Thank you, Carana, for this interesting document that shows countries have different views on the topic. However UE countries have managed to agree on a hotline nb and cooperation  which is really a progress. You've read that one of the difficulties concerning a specific offenders' register is it has certain repercussions on sex offenders' privacy and reintegration into society.
Had Portugal an abduction alert device in 2007 (as France), it couldn't have be used in Madeleine's case, since one of the criteria is proven or highly probable (breaking in) abduction.

And if my aunt had testicles she would be my uncle.

[Carana]

Thank you, Carana, for this interesting document that shows countries have different views on the topic. However UE countries have managed to agree on a hotline nb and cooperation  which is really a progress. You've read that one of the difficulties concerning a specific offenders' register is it has certain repercussions on sex offenders' privacy and reintegration into society.
Had Portugal an abduction alert device in 2007 (as France), it couldn't have be used in Madeleine's case, since one of the criteria is proven or highly probable (breaking in) abduction.

Well, I guess these situations need to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

I don't see why an alert has to be restricted to proven abduction. Sadly, not all abductions involve someone being shoved in the boot of a car observed by a bystander who happens to have a smartphone to take a snapshot of the car and licence plate. Or, at the time, might have needed to have a pen and paper at hand.

A missing alert might be more appropriate in some circumstances, namely when there is a real fear that the missing person could be in serious danger, with precise information that the public should look out for.

I'm thinking in general, not just about Madeleine's case.

[Carana]

An abduction alert wouldn't have been launched in poor little Mari Luz's case either...

[AnneGuedes]

Thank you, Carana, for this interesting document that shows countries have different views on the topic. However UE countries have managed to agree on a hotline nb and cooperation  which is really a progress. You've read that one of the difficulties concerning a specific offenders' register is it has certain repercussions on sex offenders' privacy and reintegration into society.
Had Portugal an abduction alert device in 2007 (as France), it couldn't have be used in Madeleine's case, since one of the criteria is proven or highly probable (breaking in) abduction.

Well, I guess these situations need to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

I don't see why an alert has to be restricted to proven abduction. Sadly, not all abductions involve someone being shoved in the boot of a car observed by a bystander who happens to have a smartphone to take a snapshot of the car and licence plate. Or, at the time, might have needed to have a pen and paper at hand.

A missing alert might be more appropriate in some circumstances, namely when there is a real fear that the missing person could be in serious danger, with precise information that the public should look out for.

I'm thinking in general, not just about Madeleine's case.

Yes, Carana, it's not a perfect device, but it has been studied very carefully. All countries agreed about the requirement of proven or highly probable abduction. Even so  some restricted the alert to case where the child's life is at risk.
In France the alert has always (or almost always) proved successful. But the criteria turn it very rare.