Author Topic: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?  (Read 39624 times)

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AnneGuedes

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Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #105 on: June 08, 2013, 10:57:44 AM »
An interesting article.

On the "Porkie" issue, I don't read that as Nick Davies himself referring to the Portuguese as such, but reflecting the term used by the Vale Navio Brits when describing the situation from their perspective. He doesn't use that term elsewhere in the article when writing about other aspects of the case.


Try imagining that it was a serious Portuguese journalist describing a similar situation in the UK and when reflecting the perspective of the local Portuguese community concerning Brits, referred to them as "Bifes", but did not use the term when explaining other aspects of the case.
He uses the word thrice at least (once as a quotation would have been enough), he mentions also Portuguese gangsters without reference at all, frustrating. This article isn't sourced at all, it looks absolutely "tabloid" style and the general tone is unpleasant.
I thought "it could be me", and sent it to a French friend of mine, very fluent in English, and she was shocked. In France such an article in Le Monde, Libération, l'Express, le Nouvel Observateur is unthinkable.
If you can find in the Diário de Noticias or in Publico an article by a Portuguese best selling (well known) author story telling how Portugueses in a community in the UK made their own investigation on an internal case of abduction and murder, taping even a suspect on his deathbed because the "Bifes", those incompetents and corrupted framed the wrong guy, if you can find something close to that, Carana, please send the link.
But my point in fact is there are in the Algarve some British people who behave extraordinarily, on the basis the country host is "out law", being corrupted etc. and that this justifies their making the law, their law. 
I think this mentality enlightens the McCann case.

Offline DCI

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Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #106 on: June 08, 2013, 11:17:32 AM »
Interesting snippets, in that article.

Sound familiar.

And in the 24 hours after Rachel’s body was found, the speculation became feverish. Ray was telling people that Rachel was happier now, that she was in a better place, then he started saying that he had seen her on Tuesday night in a vision and that he had known then that she was dead. Several of the men went to check out Ray’s car – which was red with foreign plates – and in the back they found a rope and blanket covered in pine needles. Finally, deep in drink, in conversation with a Vale Navio timeshare salesman named Mike Cunningham, Ray made what sounded very much like a confession.


It became clear that some of the police procedure had been clumsy. They had failed to cordon off the area around the body. They had mistakenly frozen the girl’s body for 12 hours before the post-mortem, making it impossible to establish a time of death or even a day of death. They had found blood under one of her finger nails but they said it was too small for their old-fashioned laboratories to test for a blood type. They had allowed the body to be cremated within a week, making it impossible for Cook’s lawyers to arrange their own post-mortem. The Portuguese woman who took the ransom call in the sales office had identified Mick Cook’s voice but since it was the only voice that the police had asked her to listen to, the identification was worthless. It was the same with the riding instructor who thought he had seen Mick near the trees where the body was found: he had now positively identified him but he had done so in an ID parade which had begun and ended with a detective pointing at Mick and saying “Is this him?”


In Portugal, the detective in charge of the case suddenly left the force; Cook’s Lisbon lawyer was badly injured in a mysterious car crash, which killed his wife; the manager of Vale Navio left the country, saying his life had been threatened and he would never return;
...

Carana posted it in full in April. Sadie also posted the torture documents regarding Mr. Michael Cook. Not pleasant reading.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1354.0
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Offline Carana

Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #107 on: June 08, 2013, 11:26:29 AM »
He uses the word thrice at least (once as a quotation would have been enough), he mentions also Portuguese gangsters without reference at all, frustrating. This article isn't sourced at all, it looks absolutely "tabloid" style and the general tone is unpleasant.
I thought "it could be me", and sent it to a French friend of mine, very fluent in English, and she was shocked. In France such an article in Le Monde, Libération, l'Express, le Nouvel Observateur is unthinkable.
If you can find in the Diário de Noticias or in Publico an article by a Portuguese best selling (well known) author story telling how Portugueses in a community in the UK made their own investigation on an internal case of abduction and murder, taping even a suspect on his deathbed because the "Bifes", those incompetents and corrupted framed the wrong guy, if you can find something close to that, Carana, please send the link.
But my point in fact is there are in the Algarve some British people who behave extraordinarily, on the basis the country host is "out law", being corrupted etc. and that this justifies their making the law, their law. 
I think this mentality enlightens the McCann case.

In context, I understand the use of the term as a way of conveying a sense of how a certain type of ex-pat views the nationals of the host country. It doesn't mean that he, Nick Davies, shares it.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 11:28:13 AM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #108 on: June 08, 2013, 11:31:03 AM »
@ DCI

I did have a feeling that I'd posted the article some time ago.

Thanks for that and for finding the thread.

Offline DCI

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Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #109 on: June 08, 2013, 11:39:36 AM »
@ DCI

I did have a feeling that I'd posted the article some time ago.

Thanks for that and for finding the thread.

You are welocome.

I also believe Eleanor has posted loads of info, on Micheal Cook's torture, some time ago.

Perhaps Admin will open a new thread for this, as its off topic, on this one.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 11:41:17 AM by DCI »
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AnneGuedes

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Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #110 on: June 08, 2013, 12:12:35 PM »
Interesting snippets, in that article.

Carana posted it in full in April. Sadie also posted the torture documents regarding Mr. Michael Cook. Not pleasant reading.

Not pleasant at all. When Carana posted it, I didn't read it. A thread assuming one more time without a shadow of a doubt (amazing !) nor a shadow of a proof (also amazing !) the P... are .... requires imperatively to be passed by.
As the British suspect of the British died in 1992 without confessing on his death bed, the British suspect of the Portugueses had no alternative but to undermine the investigation. Fair enough. But the interesting point wasn't Sadie's objective unfortunately. And this thread doesn't even say which appeals were done and what resulted of it.

AnneGuedes

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Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #111 on: June 08, 2013, 12:32:28 PM »
Carana, in order to equilibrate perspectives, unless any torture, corruption, incompetence, accusation against the Portuguese police risks to be discarded according to the principle that too many accusations kills accusation, as you are so well informed, please send a link showing that muckrakering abroad and in the EU isn't a privilege of British journalists (excluding the Tabloids) like Mr Davies.

Offline Puffin

Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #112 on: June 08, 2013, 12:47:34 PM »
Carana, in order to equilibrate perspectives, unless any torture, corruption, incompetence, accusation against the Portuguese police risks to be discarded according to the principle that too many accusations kills accusation, as you are so well informed, please send a link showing that muckrakering abroad and in the EU isn't a privilege of British journalists (excluding the Tabloids) like Mr Davies.
Although I know your post was in reply to Carana, I am somewhat bemused by it.  For us not so quick off the mark types, could you please explain.  Thanks.
Truth is the property of no individual but is the treasure of all men.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline Carana

Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #113 on: June 08, 2013, 12:51:23 PM »
Carana, in order to equilibrate perspectives, unless any torture, corruption, incompetence, accusation against the Portuguese police risks to be discarded according to the principle that too many accusations kills accusation, as you are so well informed, please send a link showing that muckrakering abroad and in the EU isn't a privilege of British journalists (excluding the Tabloids) like Mr Davies.

We're talking at cross-purposes. My comment was about the impression that I had that you thought that Nick Davies was himself describing the Portuguese as "Porkies". As far as I can tell, he wasn't.


In context, the use of the term (IMO) is totally different to, e.g., Tony Parsons and his "sardine" comments - which I found objectionable and unhelpful.

AnneGuedes

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Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #114 on: June 08, 2013, 12:59:49 PM »
I reckon that manichaeism, in its colloquial meaning of simplistic dualism without nuances, ruins debates. It's an easy temptation that should be avoided, not for moral reasons but because it is unproductive.

Offline Puffin

Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #115 on: June 08, 2013, 01:04:18 PM »
I reckon that manichaeism, in its colloquial meaning of simplistic dualism without nuances, ruins debates. It's an easy temptation that should be avoided, not for moral reasons but because it is unproductive.
Okay, it must be because it's the weekend, but what has an ancient religious heresy got to do with porkies etc?
Truth is the property of no individual but is the treasure of all men.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

AnneGuedes

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Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #116 on: June 08, 2013, 01:04:30 PM »
We're talking at cross-purposes. My comment was about the impression that I had that you thought that Nick Davies was himself describing the Portuguese as "Porkies". As far as I can tell, he wasn't.


In context, the use of the term (IMO) is totally different to, e.g., Tony Parsons and his "sardine" comments - which I found objectionable and unhelpful.
I repeat that once was enough. Twice calls to mind, especially if the general tone is assumptive.
Out of curiosity, Carana, is there a positive word for "unhelpful", or has "helpful" no antonym ?

AnneGuedes

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Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #117 on: June 08, 2013, 01:07:09 PM »
got to do with porkies etc?
Don't expect me to react with some supposed Portuguese equivalent Carana revealed me..

Offline Carana

Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #118 on: June 08, 2013, 01:10:03 PM »
Kate and Gerry McCann: Beyond the smears Timesonline
 
David James Smith
December 16, 2007
 
For six months David James Smith has examined the evidence surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann for The Sunday Times Magazine. In this, the most comprehensive — and authoritative — investigation yet, he addresses the key issues facing Gerry and Kate as they prepare for Christmas without their daughter
 
That week in Praia da Luz, the week the McCanns were made suspects in their own daughter's "death", I was out there talking to them and to family and friends. I was at the home of the Anglican vicar Haynes Hubbard, sitting with him and his wife, Susan, while their own three children pottered around us. The Hubbards had flown in from Canada three days after Madeleine’s disappearance to begin Haynes’s tour of duty as the vicar of Praia da Luz. They had heard about Madeleine for the first time while changing planes at Lisbon airport, in a slightly unnerving encounter with an elderly Portuguese woman who had seized Susan’s arm and told her to "hold on" to the baby she was carrying, as a child had been taken.
 
The Hubbards had spent their first days at the resort fearing for their own children's safety. Gradually they became friends with the McCanns, particularly Susan and Kate, drawn together at first perhaps by the McCanns' need to find some comfort in religion. But mostly in Portugal the McCanns were enveloped by family and friends from the UK.
 
The McCanns were flying home that Sunday and had been to a farewell dinner that week at the Hubbards'. Susan told me that she and Kate had discussed how much one person could cope with. Kate seemed close to the limits of human endurance. Haynes chimed in: "And I don’t think she’s looking forward to tomorrow very much either." The thought was left hanging there: how much can one person take?
 
Kate was to go to the nearby town of Portimao the next day, Thursday, September 6, to be questioned by detectives from the Policia Judiciaria (PJ). It would be Gerry's turn the day after. For the media this would be a shocking new twist to the story – but not for the McCanns: the PJ had told them four weeks earlier they were going to be subjected to formal interviews and the McCanns had stayed on, instead of going home at the end of August as originally planned, waiting for the interviews to take place. Waiting. Waiting.
 
Finally, the PJ called. They told the McCanns they would be made official suspects – arguidos. The McCanns had noted the change of mood in Portugal, especially among the PJ, and the increasing viciousness of the Portuguese press. Some of the stories seemed so incredible and far-fetched – Kate, for instance, disposing of Madeleine’s body, or Madeleine’s DNA being found in the car the McCanns had hired three weeks after Madeleine disappeared – that I at first assumed they were the fanciful inventions of an unfettered press. I soon realised how well they reflected the thinking of the PJ. More recently I have discovered the stories were being fed to the press by the PJ, from the highest ranks. So much for judicial secrecy. One Portuguese journalist told me that segredo de justica – secrecy of justice – was like the speed limit. Everyone knows the law; nobody keeps to it.
 
It seems important to make it clear right away that I do not suspect the McCanns harmed Madeleine, nor do I think they disposed of their daughter’s body if, as the PJ believe, she died in an accident that night in their apartment.
 
This is not a mere prejudice on my part. I have spent a long time considering and examining every unpleasant scenario. The McCanns are not my friends and I have no axe to grind with Portugal, its police or its media.
 
To me, the McCanns are genuine people in the grip of despair – the accusations against them are ludicrous and a cruel distraction from the search for their daughter. That’s why I put the quotation marks around the word "death" at the top of the article. Madeleine may be dead, it may even be more likely she is dead, but nobody knows for sure. Nobody, not even the PJ, as we will see, can produce any persuasive evidence that she has come to harm.
 
That evening, Thursday, May 3, at just after 8pm, by their account, Kate and Gerry McCann were having a glass of wine together in apartment 5a on the ground floor of Block 5 of the Waterside Village Gardens at the Ocean Club. Their three children were asleep in the front bedroom overlooking the car park and, beyond it, the street. Madeleine was in the single bed nearest the door. There was an empty bed against the opposite wall, beneath the window. Between the two beds were two travel cots containing the twins: Sean and Amelie. Gerry had bought the wine at the Baptista supermarket, 200 yards down the hill. They had lived and worked in New Zealand for a year and that particular bottle, Montana sauvignon blanc, was their favourite. It was the sixth day of their week’s holiday in the Algarve and they were reflecting on the enjoyable time they’d had, how surprisingly easy it had been with the children.
 
When their old friend Dave Payne had invited them on a group holiday, it had seemed too good to resist. Dave and Fiona Payne had been on another Mark Warner holiday the year before, to Greece with Matt and Rachael Oldfield. The Algarve group would be completed by Russell O’Brien, Jane Tanner and Fiona’s mother, Dianne Webster. Six of the group were doctors. Gerry was a consultant cardiologist and had worked before with Matt and Russell. Kate had been an anaesthetist and was now a part-time GP.
 
The group first spent time together at Dave and Fiona’s wedding in Italy in 2003. Now they had eight children between them. Madeleine was the oldest, her fourth birthday a week after they would return from the Algarve. One of the attractions was that there were children for their own to play with. And the adults were a sporty group, a speciality of Mark Warner holidays; tennis had dominated the activities that week.
 
That might all sound very cosy and middle class, but that did not mean their lives had been easy or free of suffering – especially with the struggle to have children, eventually managed through IVF – or that they had been born into an advantaged world. Kate came from a modest Liverpool background and Gerry, the youngest of five, had been brought up in a tenement building on the south side of Glasgow.
 
The terms of the holiday were half-board, breakfast and evening meal, and the McCanns paid about £1,500. There had been some reduction when they had discovered that, unlike most Mark Warner resorts, the Ocean Club did not offer a baby-listening service. Instead, the group had asked for apartments close together, so they were all assigned to Block 5. The Paynes were on the floor above, the only couple with a functioning baby monitor. Russell O’Brien and Jane Tanner had brought a monitor too, but theirs wasn’t getting much of a signal from the Tapas restaurant 50 yards away.
 
The Ocean Club was not a gated, enclosed resort in the usual style of Mark Warner, but a sprawling complex open to the village of Luz and scattered over such a wide distance that shuttle buses were used.
 

Offline Carana

Re: Why was peoples personal information sold/given to the press?
« Reply #119 on: June 08, 2013, 01:10:46 PM »
Even though the resort was open to the village, it felt safe and secure, and in early May it was still very quiet. Gerry never saw a soul, except once, on the last night, on his evening checks, going back and forth between Tapas and the apartment, an even-paced walk of just under a minute.
 
As the McCanns endlessly repeated afterwards, if they had thought it was wrong or even risky, they would never have left their children. With hindsight, of course, they would never have done it and now they are riven with guilt, but we can all be wise after the event, and so many of us have taken similar chances at times, in search of a bit of respite from our children.
 
Gerry had knocked up at the start of the 4.30pm tennis-drills session, but had decided not to exacerbate an injury to his Achilles tendon, so had dropped out and waited around by the courts until the children came back from the kids’ clubs at 5pm for tea. That had been one of the most enjoyable times of the holiday, all the children together for tea, then the adults playing with them afterwards.
 
Gerry was in his apartment at 7pm, had a glass of water, then a beer, while the children sat with Kate on the couch having stories with a snack. The children were clearly shattered – the last thing any of them needed was a sedative and, anyway, it was not something the McCanns ever did. They put them to bed after a last story. The twins were asleep virtually the moment they lay down, Madeleine not far behind them.
 
These days it was rare for Madeleine to wake up at all once she was in bed. If she did, she’d normally wander into her parents’ bed, whether they were there or not. At home in Rothley, sometime earlier, they had begun a star chart for Madeleine staying in her own bed. The chart, still on display in the kitchen, was full of stars. At about 7.30pm, Kate and Gerry showered and changed and sat down to have a quiet glass of the sauvignon blanc. They were first to the table at the restaurant at 8.35 and spent some minutes talking to a couple from Hertfordshire – two more tennis players – at the next table, who were eating with their young children. As they chatted, Gerry thought how lucky he was, his children asleep nearby, he and Kate free to come and enjoy some adult time at the restaurant and not have to sit with their children, as this couple were.
 
The McCanns sat down after a few minutes and then ordered some wine. The Oldfields were next to arrive, then Russell O’Brien and Jane Tanner and, finally, always last, Dave and Fiona Payne with Dianne Webster.
 
That night their group ordered six bottles in total and two were still untouched on the table at 10pm. No more than half a bottle of wine each. The Portuguese magazine Sol reported that the group had drunk 14 bottles. Another Portuguese journalist told me a local GNR (national republican guard) police officer had described one of the group as being so drunk later that evening, they could barely stand.
 
They had just ordered starters when the routine of checking began. Matt Oldfield went first at 8.55 to check his own apartment and to hurry up the Paynes, who had still not arrived.
 
He was followed by Gerry, who entered his apartment at about 9.05 through the patio doors to the lounge. Earlier that week the McCanns had used a key to go in through the front door next to the children’s bedroom but, worrying the noise might wake the children, they began using the patio doors, leaving them unlocked.
 
When he entered the apartment, Gerry immediately saw that the children’s bedroom door, which they always left just ajar, was now open to 45 degrees. He thought that was odd, and glanced in his own bedroom to see if Madeleine had gone into her parents’ bed. But no, she and the twins were all still fast asleep.
 
Gerry paused over Madeleine, who – a typical doctor’s observation, this – was lying almost in “the recovery position” with Cuddle Cat, the toy her godfather, John Corner, had bought her, and her comfort blanket up near her head, and Gerry thought how gorgeous, how lovely-looking she was and how lucky he was. Putting the door back to five degrees, he went to the loo and left to return to the restaurant. That, of course, was the last time he would see his daughter.
 
As he walked down the hill, Gerry saw Jes Wilkins on the opposite side of the road pushing a child in a buggy. Gerry called hello and crossed over to talk. Wilkins and his partner were eating in their own apartment that night, but their youngest still wouldn’t settle. It reminded Gerry of the fraught time he and Kate used to have with Madeleine when she was a baby. In his memory, they could never eat a meal together when they went out, as she was always disturbing them and needing to be wheeled off to sleep.
 
As Jane Tanner walked up the hill, she saw Gerry talking to Jes and, as she passed them, she saw ahead of her a man walking quickly across the top of the road in front of her, going away from the apartment block, heading to the outer road of the resort complex. The man was carrying a little girl who was hanging limply from his open arms. The sighting was odd, but hardly exceptional in a holiday resort.
 
Her daughter fine, Jane returned to the table. At 9.30, Kate got up to make the next check on her children, but Matt Oldfield was checking too, as was Russell O’Brien, and Matt offered to do Kate’s check for her, which she accepted. Gerry teased that she would not be excused her turn at the next check.
 
In the McCanns’ apartment, Oldfield noticed the children’s bedroom door was again open, but that meant nothing to him, so he merely observed all was quiet and made a cursory glance inside the room, seeing the twins in their cots but, agonisingly, not directly seeing Madeleine’s bed from the angle at which he stood. Afterwards, he could not say for sure if she had been there or not. Nor could he say if the window and shutter had been open.
 
He would get a hard time from the police because of this, during his interviews not long afterwards, being aggressively accused of taking Madeleine – you passed her out of the window, didn’t you! – being suspected because he had offered to take Kate’s turn.
 
Jane Tanner, too, would be accused of fabricating or misremembering her sighting of this stranger with a child. There could be no answer to such an accusation – except that she was an ordinary, honest person who knew what she had seen. Sometime after 10pm, Rachael Oldfield would go to Jane’s apartment to tell her Madeleine had been taken and Jane would say: “Oh my God. I saw a man carrying a girl.”
 
It perhaps needs to be stated openly that all these timings and details, the way in which they weave and dovetail together, are based on witness accounts – corroborated not just by the McCann group but by others, such as Jes Wilkins – and that, despite suggestions to the contrary, there are no obvious contradictions or differences between them. Nor has any of the McCann group, at any time since, said they wanted to retract or change their statement.
 
That suggestion too is a lie.