How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?

[pathfinder73]

MO never did his check at 10pm so we can take that as a good indication that Kate raised the alarm before 10pm. Also Fiona Payne as Russell's steak arrived before 10pm. Some wouldn't know the time at all and just agreed with what the others said.

Russell O'Brien
"So me and Matt walked back to the, to the, erm, to the flats, erm, this would have been about, about kind of twenty-five past nine."

"Erm, my food had arrived, well my food had arrived I think by this point.  And, and then Kate, erm, erm, returned," (same as Fiona's recollection)

"Gerry, just said ‘Look, let’s just’, erm, ‘let’s just split up and find’, erm, you know, ‘see if we can find her, see if she’s just wandered out’. "

Jane Tanner
4078    “What time would this have been around?”
Reply    “I’d say it was around ten past nine’ish”.

Tapas timeline says 9.20pm. Rachael also said Jane left at 9.10pm. So why was 9.20pm put on the  tapas timeline? That's 10 mins later. If we go by that indication then you move everything before 10pm not after.

[AnneGuedes]

plus or minus fifteen minutes. There is no reliable method to determine this with accuracy.

No.

[AnneGuedes]

MO never did his check at 10pm so we can take that as a good indication that Kate raised the alarm before 10pm. Also Fiona Payne as Russell's steak arrived before 10pm. Some wouldn't know the time at all and just agreed with what the others said.

Russell O'Brien
"So me and Matt walked back to the, to the, erm, to the flats, erm, this would have been about, about kind of twenty-five past nine."

"Erm, my food had arrived, well my food had arrived I think by this point.  And, and then Kate, erm, erm, returned," (same as Fiona's recollection)

"Gerry, just said ‘Look, let’s just’, erm, ‘let’s just split up and find’, erm, you know, ‘see if we can find her, see if she’s just wandered out’. "

Jane Tanner
4078    “What time would this have been around?”
Reply    “I’d say it was around ten past nine’ish”.

Tapas timeline says 9.20pm. Rachael also said Jane left at 9.10pm. So why was 9.20pm put on the  tapas timeline? That's 10 mins later. If we go by that indication then you move everything before 10pm not after.

When asked, he (Ricardo O.) says that on 3rd May he only remembers that one guest from the table left for about 10 minutes, given that when he was about to serve the respective plate he was told to hold the food back for a few minutes, and that it was about 15 minutes before the guest returned, at about 21.45.
Vol. II, pp. 266-68 06.05.2007

[pathfinder73]

Yes we're looking as early as 9.50pm or 9.55pm the latest for the alert. This would give anyone enough time to meet the Smith family on those first searches if they did meet at around 10pm.

"Gerry, just said ‘Look, let’s just’, erm, ‘let’s just split up and find’, erm, you know, ‘see if we can find her, see if she’s just wandered out’. " (Russell O'Brien)

That is important because it indicates that Gerry was indeed out searching with the others and they all split up in those first searches.  Now what direction did they each go?  I'll go this way, you go that way etc. They were running not walking.

[jassi]

Yes we're looking as early as 9.50pm or 9.55pm the latest for the alert. This would give anyone enough time to meet the Smith family on those first searches if they did meet at around 10pm.

"Gerry, just said ‘Look, let’s just’, erm, ‘let’s just split up and find’, erm, you know, ‘see if we can find her, see if she’s just wandered out’. " (Russell O'Brien)

That is important because it indicates that Gerry was indeed out searching with the others and they all split up in those first searches.  Now what direction did they each go? I'll go this way, you go that way etc.

Certainly one of them (?Payne) was around the pool area and another one (Mat?) went to reception to contact the police, so just who was searching the wider area in the early moments ?

[pathfinder73]

There's Russell and Gerry out somewhere else searching.

[jassi]

Not many, is it? If they split up and went different ways, as would be likely, then each one would have little idea of where the others were at any given moment.

[pathfinder73]

"somebody went back to the Tapas both to let Diane know about everything you know and I presume the waiters will have been spoken to but it wasn’t, not by me”. (RO)

Who was that? David Payne?

"I then did a solitary search down the, the west side of the apartments into the car park and shopping centre as I discussed, err there was then a, a joint search with me, Matt and Dave coming, sweeping down the town err towards the ri, the river, err towards the sea and erm then we split up and searched the beach." (RO)

[jassi]

"somebody went back to the Tapas both to let Diane know about everything you know and I presume the waiters will have been spoken to but it wasn’t, not by me”. (RO)

Who was that? David Payne?

"I then did a solitary search down the, the west side of the apartments into the car park and shopping centre as I discussed, err there was then a, a joint search with me, Matt and Dave coming, sweeping down the town err towards the ri, the river, err towards the sea and erm then we split up and searched the beach." (RO)

So obviously Gerry was somewhere else at this time, though  frustratingly, we don't know exactly what this time was.

[pathfinder73]

David Payne

I say at some stage I went back and asked Dianne to just, could you go and stay with the children. I did a sweep of the err the pool err and the area you know immediately around err the Ocean Club, then met up with Matt and err Russell.

1485    ”Yeah so you’ve started to take part in the searches and you’ve taken part with Matt and Russell.”
Reply    ”Mm.”
1485    ”You’ve done a bit of a loop of the…”
Reply    ”Yeah.”
1485    ”Down to the Supermarket. Just tell me…”
Reply    ”I mean the…”
1485    ”You went back, subsequently back to your apartment and then bedtime and then…”
Reply    ”Yeah I mean my, my, you know a lot of the movements you know the, initially with the sweep that I did straight away round the complex I was on, you know I did that on my own err you know, going up to the room, that bit I did on my own and where I swept down to the beach and walked along you know and shouted for Madeleine and seeing other people as I went along you know that was purely, I was running and I was doing that on my own. Then when I went back to the apartment, then swept up you know at some stage looking up at the, the area above the apartment to the side, looking in the rough err some rough land which was on the way to the err Millennium err where we ate, err and there was err bumped into Dan, he was looking, you know the tennis pro, looking there you know err I say that was another part of the search.

[pathfinder73]

Someone is missing?

[AnneGuedes]

Yes we're looking as early as 9.50pm or 9.55pm the latest for the alert. This would give anyone enough time to meet the Smith family on those first searches if they did meet at around 10pm.

"Gerry, just said ‘Look, let’s just’, erm, ‘let’s just split up and find’, erm, you know, ‘see if we can find her, see if she’s just wandered out’. " (Russell O'Brien)

That is important because it indicates that Gerry was indeed out searching with the others and they all split up in those first searches.  Now what direction did they each go?  I'll go this way, you go that way etc. They were running not walking.

There was no organisation, they run in all directions, thinking that she couldn't be far away.
The Oldfields apparently went straight to their flat and the McCanns to theirs.
You might be right about the flowerbed, but no bag. None of them says they went on this dark alley path. After turning right between the two buildings and on reaching the G5 carpark, there are little steps on the left that lead to the upper G4 carpark. This carpark entry/exit leaves you almost at the corner of Primeiro de Maio/Agostinho da Silva.

[AnneGuedes]

So obviously Gerry was somewhere else at this time, though  frustratingly, we don't know exactly what this time was.

Nobody reports searching with him and as well he never pretended he searched. However :
he (Mr McCann) closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside. "They" (not "we") continued with searches outside around the various apartment blocks, the deponent having asked MATHEW who went to the secondary reception [where] the event was communicated to the local police, since he had no doubt that his daughter had been kidnapped. He refutes, peremptorily, the notion [idea/hypothesis] that MADELEINE could have left the apartment by her own means. (10th of May)
He doesn't search because he has no doubt Madeleine has been abducted : logical.

-- When asked why instead of scouring the land next to the complex they stayed inside the apartment, he replies that it did not happen that way. While the guests and employees of the resort were searching, he went to the main Reception to check whether they had called the Police, and told Kate to wait inside the apartment. After going to the Reception he went back to the apartment where he stayed in the living room and in their bedroom. (7th of September)

Just after ten past ten, Gerry asked Matt to run to the Ocean Club’s twenty-four-hour reception to get the staff to call the police. curious precision of time in "Madeleine"
and again
At 10.35 the police had still not arrived, so Gerry asked Matt if he would go back down to the twenty-four-hour reception and find out what was happening.

But, as well curiously, no indication of time here :
Gerry had been over to the Mini Club above the twenty-four-hour reception, MO did that before !  thinking that if Madeleine had been left somewhere, she might possibly make her way back to any place that was familiar to her.
Compare this motive to the one given by Mr McCann in his 7th of September statement...
The MiniClub is right on top of the Main Reception.

[jassi]

Did anybody else see Gerry lifting the shutters or is this just on his say so ?

[AnneGuedes]

Did anybody else see Gerry lifting the shutters or is this just on his say so ?

In the children’s room, Gerry lowered the shutter at the open window. Rushing outside, he made the sickening discovery that it could be raised from this side, too, not just from inside as we’d thought. "Madeleine"