Author Topic: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?  (Read 126361 times)

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Offline pathfinder73

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #540 on: November 11, 2013, 05:38:28 PM »
It's said in Madeleine, no time indicated. He was alone, nobody saw him at the creche nor at the main reception.

I'm shocked! He didn't mention the creche in his witness statement either on 4 May.

"Immediately, the group headed for the club and searched across all the facilities, swimming pool, tennis etc., as well as in the apartment, with the help of Ocean Club employees, while at the same time they contacted the authorities, that would later appear."

Gerry went to the reception later with John Hill. Hill first knew about the disappearance in a phone call at 10.28pm.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 05:47:11 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #541 on: November 11, 2013, 06:13:16 PM »
I'm shocked! He didn't mention the creche in his witness statement either on 4 May.

"Immediately, the group headed for the club and searched across all the facilities, swimming pool, tennis etc., as well as in the apartment, with the help of Ocean Club employees, while at the same time they contacted the authorities, that would later appear."

Gerry went to the reception later with John Hill. Hill first knew about the disappearance in a phone call at 10.28pm.
Yes, John Hill went immediately to the Tapas resort and saw a lot of people searching. He went then to the main reception to see if the police had been called and must have been the authority the receptionist needed to make a call (21h42). Then John Hill says he went to the 5A and saw both parents. He doesn't say he went back to the main reception with Mr McCann, but that he orientated the searches in situ.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #542 on: November 11, 2013, 06:14:51 PM »
I'm shocked! He didn't mention the creche in his witness statement either on 4 May.

He didn't mention it either on the 10th of May or on the 7th of September.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #543 on: November 11, 2013, 06:24:46 PM »
This is a change that happened in his 10 May statement:

"He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scenario that she found when she entered the apartment. Then he closed the shutters, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside. They continued with searches outside, around the various apartment blocks."
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 06:27:35 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #544 on: November 11, 2013, 06:34:28 PM »
Yes, John Hill went immediately to the Tapas resort and saw a lot of people searching. He went then to the main reception to see if the police had been called and must have been the authority the receptionist needed to make a call (21h42). Then John Hill says he went to the 5A and saw both parents. He doesn't say he went back to the main reception with Mr McCann, but that he orientated the searches in situ.

Yes there's a discrepancy on the point. Maybe John Hill went back to the reception again with Gerry?

"The deponent went to the main reception to see if the authorities had been alerted, and fifteen minutes later went to the apartment being used by the McCanns, where he saw that both members of the couple were in a panic and were shouting that the child had been taken." (John Hill)

That's 10.45pm estimate time when John Hill arrived at the McCann's apartment.

"That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child's father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again." (Helder Jorge Samaio Luis - Occupation: Receptionist Ocean Club)

If they went back to the reception (Hill & Gerry) this would have been after 10.45pm because the police hadn't arrived yet. I think they arrived at around 11pm.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 06:50:44 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #545 on: November 11, 2013, 06:41:04 PM »
This is a change that happened in his 10 May statement:

"He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scenario that she found when she entered the apartment. Then he closed the shutters, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside. They continued with searches outside, around the various apartment blocks."
"They" has no antecedent here, it is indefinite, like in "they've taken her".

The main difference between this statement and the 4th one is that on the 10th everything is/seems closed when Mrs McCann enters the flat vs everything (door, shutters, window, curtains) is open when she enters.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #546 on: November 11, 2013, 06:52:47 PM »
Yes there's a discrepancy on the point. Maybe John Hill went back to the reception again with Gerry?

"The deponent went to the main reception to see if the authorities had been alerted, and fifteen minutes later went to the apartment being used by the McCanns, where he saw that both members of the couple were in a panic and were shouting that the child had been taken." (John Hill)

That's 10.45pm estimate time when John Hill arrived at the McCann's apartment.

"That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child's father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again." (Helder Jorge Samaio Luis - Occupation: Receptionist Ocean Club)

If they went back to the reception (Hill & Gerry) this would have been after 10.45pm because the police haven't arrived yet. I think they arrived around 11pm.
John Hill might have driven Mr McCann to the main reception and asked to call the police again (2nd call at 21h52?), then left in direction of the resort and the searches.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #547 on: November 11, 2013, 06:56:05 PM »
That should be 22:52?
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #548 on: November 11, 2013, 07:19:37 PM »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #549 on: November 11, 2013, 08:50:40 PM »
Thanks. We can start to make an apartment timeline now.

10pm Dianne Webster goes to the apartment - Kate alone with twins

10.10pm Fiona arrives at the apartment (Dianne left to relieve her) - Kate alone with twins.

10.20pm Emma Wright arrives at the apartment - only Kate and Fiona present.

10.45pm John Hill arrives at the apartment - Gerry is now present.

So between 10.25 and 10.45 the men are starting to return to the apartment from their various searches.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 09:01:16 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #550 on: November 12, 2013, 10:06:07 AM »
+- 10:10 : Dianne is asked to go back to the restaurant and pick up objects that were left there.
+- 10:15 : Dianne is back in 5A and this time Gerald is there.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #551 on: November 12, 2013, 05:16:51 PM »
That can't be right as Emma Wright didn't arrive until 10.20pm and only Kate and Fiona were there. If Fiona was there then Dianne wasn't because she was looking after the children in Payne's apartment.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 05:20:14 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline jassi

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #552 on: November 12, 2013, 05:25:56 PM »
Who was looking after Fiona's children while Dianne was going back to the table? Was Kate left alone during this period as the other 2 women would also be attending to their own children ?

Just curious, you understand.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #553 on: November 12, 2013, 05:33:41 PM »
In turn, as relates to her, the witness says she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the apartment McCANN.
- In that apartment she found that KATE was completely in panic, in "state of shock ".
- Because she was asked, she states that she entered the apartment by the sliding glass door of the patio at the back, which gives access to the lounge. Then she went to the children's bedroom, noting that there she found KATE and the twin siblings of MADELEINE
- She added that she did not remember too much detail about the scenario that she found in that bedroom, other that what she said above. However, she states that KATE had repeatedly commented that, on arriving at the bedroom, she had found the window of the room, with its shutter, both open. Yet, she [DW] did not notice, while at the entrance to the room, if the window was or was not open.
- However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed.

(...)
- She adds that that night, and after the occurrence of the facts under investigation, have been in the apartment on two separate occasions. At the time described above she remained about 10 minutes in the apartment. After this time she returned to the restaurant to get her handbag as well as the camera of the couple McCANN and "baby monitor" of her daughter, and was soon back again in the apartment.
- The question being asked about the people that were inside the apartment of McCANN at that time, the witness said that the McCANN couple were present (although on the first occasion she had no recollection of having seen GERRY), and FIONA, not remembering any other people that were there.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #554 on: November 12, 2013, 05:34:31 PM »
Who was looking after Fiona's children while Dianne was going back to the table? Was Kate left alone during this period as the other 2 women would also be attending to their own children ?

Just curious, you understand.

David Payne said Dianne could leave the tapas bar in the first few minutes of the searches.

Dianne goes to the apartment and finds Kate alone with twins. She stays there for a bit checking the windows and shutters and did a quick search and then probably went to retrieve her belongings from the tapas bar.

Dianne then goes to relieve Fiona who's looking after her children. Fiona goes to the apartment where she finds Kate alone with the twins at around 10.10pm.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 06:28:33 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.