Author Topic: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?  (Read 15002 times)

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AnneGuedes

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Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2013, 05:17:05 PM »

(  and that's another thing ...  after opening the shutters and window,  why did he close the curtains  ? )
Actually he left them open in Mrs McCann's first statement, but closed them in the timeline.

Offline sadie

Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2013, 05:19:06 PM »
It would be difficult to  close the  door if he was   carrying a child across his  arms the way Jane Tanner described

...  and why would he bother  ?

He'd left the window and shutters wide open

(  and that's another thing ...  after opening the shutters and window,  why did he close the curtains  ? )
He closed the curtains.  This is a big indicator that he left by the front door.  Would not be easy to lean back in and close the curtains.  Not impossible tho.

If the shutters were down on the patio door as our new friend, Albertino, thinks, then he would have plenty of warning that someone was coming in.

icabodcrane

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Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2013, 05:25:07 PM »
Actually he left them open in Mrs McCann's first statement, but closed them in the timeline.

ahh  yes,  I'd forgotten that Anne

In their first statements  to the police,,  both Kate and Gerry say the curtains, window, and shutters,  were all open when Kate discovered Madeleine was missing  ...  indeed, it was the open, curtains, window, and shutters that she first noticed,  before even realising that Madeleine was not in her bed

That changed later, of course,  when the curtains were suddenly closed  ...  and it wasn't until she had found Madeleine gone,  and looked for her in the other room,  that she was eventually alerted to the open window following a gust of wind whooshing the curtains up

icabodcrane

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Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2013, 05:27:50 PM »
He closed the curtains.  This is a big indicator that he left by the front door.  Would not be easy to lean back in and close the curtains.  Not impossible tho.

If the shutters were down on the patio door as our new friend, Albertino, thinks, then he would have plenty of warning that someone was coming in.

But  why  did he close the curtains  ?  ...  and why did he  bother closing the front door behind him  ?     

Offline Benice

Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2013, 05:33:28 PM »
Why then,  having gone to the trouble of preparing this escape route,  did he not take it  ?   ...  why risk going back into the living room,  carrying a child,  where he could,  as you say,  have come face to face with someone coming through the patio doors at that very moment  ?

Because he didn't need to take it as no-one interrupted him.   IMO he left through the front door and handed her down over the wall opposite the front door to an accomplice - who set off with her.  We could speculate endlessly about what he did then.

If it was one abductor he could have opened the window so that he himself could look through it to check the area in front of 5A -  as this was not possible from the recessed front door.  Then once satisfied the coast was clear he left via the front door.

Or he could simply have opened the shutters and window to deflect attention away from his entry via the front door with a key.   That certainly seems to have worked with Amaral, who having once mentioned that entry could have been gained through the front door with a key, never mentioned that possibility again.



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

AnneGuedes

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Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2013, 07:52:34 PM »
But  why  did he close the curtains  ?  ...  and why did he  bother closing the front door behind him  ?   
Perhaps he closed the curtains in the timeline because he hoped, hiding the open shutters/window which would have raised suspicion, he had a chance to enjoy longer a charming night in PDL, walking with little Madeleine on his arms ?
And in fact he'd have been right, hadn't the wind popped up with the moon and slammed the door, revealing that you shouldn't trust sleeping water, as we say in French : things are seldom as they appear.

Offline Albertini

Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2013, 08:04:05 PM »
Because he didn't need to take it as no-one interrupted him.   IMO he left through the front door and handed her down over the wall opposite the front door to an accomplice - who set off with her.  We could speculate endlessly about what he did then.

If it was one abductor he could have opened the window so that he himself could look through it to check the area in front of 5A -  as this was not possible from the recessed front door.  Then once satisfied the coast was clear he left via the front door.

Or he could simply have opened the shutters and window to deflect attention away from his entry via the front door with a key.   That certainly seems to have worked with Amaral, who having once mentioned that entry could have been gained through the front door with a key, never mentioned that possibility again.

Is it not actually true that opening that shutter window and looking out of it would attract more attention and be far riskier to himself than peeking out of a recessed front door?

Wouldn't the front door provide more cover for him to check rather than opening the shutter and being in full view of whoever was walking past at that time that he would have been unable to see whilst the other side of the opening the shutter?

That's surely a massive gamble on his part? After all the shutter is in full view of the main road, the door isn't.

Strikes me that opening a shutter to check who's outside is far riskier than edging out gingerly from behind a recessed door that no one could see from the road.

Offline sadie

Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2013, 09:54:14 PM »
But  why  did he close the curtains  ?  ...  and why did he  bother closing the front door behind him  ?   

Did Kate actually know if the curtains were fully closed?   Or maybe partially open but still whooshed fully open with a gust of wind.  Very gusty that night.

Imo Icabod, he closed the curtains, partially at least, after the deed was done.   He left the window open to help clear any ?chloroform fumes, but pulled the curtains to a little.  In an emergency he could still escape thru the cheap curtains if the window was open..  I think at one stage they were fully open to provide natural moonlight and a little light from street lamps that managed to get thru the trees, to the room.  Better to use that light rather than use artificial light within the room. 

I think he closed the front door cos the key was left in the lock and it was easy to pull it to using that.  That way there wouldn't be any finger prints on the front door, just on the key possibly

And he was taking the key with him.

I think the main purpose of closing the front door and leaving the window and shutters open was to give the impression that Madeleine had left under her own steam, to give them getaway time.  It was also important to take the investigators eye off the front door, cos that would point to someone attached to OC, who had accerss to the keys.

Offline John

Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2013, 03:26:53 AM »
He closed the curtains.  This is a big indicator that he left by the front door.  Would not be easy to lean back in and close the curtains.  Not impossible tho.

If the shutters were down on the patio door as our new friend, Albertino, thinks, then he would have plenty of warning that someone was coming in.

Had the patio door shutter been lowered access would have been almost impossible for one person on their own as this is not the way the shutters are supposed to work.  If Matthew and Kate both entered the apartment via the patio door then the shutter was us. 

Question is - who lifted it if what Rachael Oldfield claims in her statement is true?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 07:46:32 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2013, 04:11:28 AM »

I think the main purpose of closing the front door and leaving the window and shutters open was to give the impression that Madeleine had left under her own steam, to give them getaway time.  It was also important to take the investigators eye off the front door, cos that would point to someone attached to OC, who had accerss to the keys.

An excellent suggestion Sadie and a very plausible one at that because that is in fact what happened.  They went out searching because they thought she had got out by herself and was wandering the streets.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Benice

Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2013, 09:43:23 AM »
Is it not actually true that opening that shutter window and looking out of it would attract more attention and be far riskier to himself than peeking out of a recessed front door?

Wouldn't the front door provide more cover for him to check rather than opening the shutter and being in full view of whoever was walking past at that time that he would have been unable to see whilst the other side of the opening the shutter?

That's surely a massive gamble on his part? After all the shutter is in full view of the main road, the door isn't.

Strikes me that opening a shutter to check who's outside is far riskier than edging out gingerly from behind a recessed door that no one could see from the road.

Because the front door was recessed so far back it was only possible to see a small part of  the car park from there because the view was restricted by the walls either side of the recess, and it was completely impossible to see to the left or right  from that door.     Someone could be standing outside Madeleine's window and you wouldn't be able to see them from the front door without first walking out of the door a metre or so as far as the path - and then risk being seen.  So peeking out of the front door was not an option IMO.

Only people actually going to apartment 5A would ever pass along the front of that apartment - as there was no throughway.   So there would be no people walking past the window.     The only danger was if someone was actually coming to 5A -  but IIRC the  whole of the car park could be seen from the window, including the Entrance to it, and so could be checked first by an intruder from inside the room - before they made their exit via the front door.
IMO   








The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Carana

Re: Was the open window and the lifted shutters simply a ruse?
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2013, 10:40:08 AM »
Actually he left them open in Mrs McCann's first statement, but closed them in the timeline.


The same person served as an interpreter for both Gerry and Kate that day. I'm sure she was doing her best, but what exactly was her experience in working as an interpreter? Strong accents, the use of slang, stressful circumstances, being brought in at short notice, etc., can all lead to misunderstandings.

If Kate had said that the curtains whooshed open, the interpreter may not have understood what she meant by "whooshed" and just said that they were open (as in drawn aside, as opposed to fluttering in the wind).