Could the cadaver scent have been planted?

[Albertini]

As you don't do cites (still waiting for the last three) I will do it

ONE

Apartment 5a

The EVRD alerted in the:
Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.

Living room, behind sofa.

Veranda outside parent's bedroom.

Garden area directly under veranda.

My observation of the dog's behaviour in this instance was that the dog's behaviour changed immediately upon opening the front door to the apartment. He will normally remain in the sit position until released and tasked to search.
On this occasion he broke the stay and entered the apartment with an above average interest. His behaviour was such that I believed him to be 'in scent' and I therefore allowed him to free search without direction to allow him to identify the source of his interest. He did so alerting in the rear bedroom.

I released him from this and tasked him to continue to search. He did so alerting in an area to the rear of the sofa in the lounge.

The dog's behaviour for these alerts led me to the following opinions:

The first alert was given with the dogs head in the air without a positive area being identified. This is the alert given by him when there is no tangible evidence to be located only the remaining scent.

The second alert was one where a definitive area was evident. The CSI dog was therefore deployed who gave specific alert indications to specific areas on the tiled floor area behind the sofa and on the curtain in the area that was in contact with the floor behind the sofa. This would indicate to the likely presence of human blood.

The forensic science support officers were then deployed to recover items for laboratory analysis.

Both Eddie and Keela Alerted. Suggestive of blood, no suggestion of cadaver. Blood traces were recovered.

FAIL

Note that Keela was not deployed on the Verandah, or the Garden area. WHY NOT? Looks a little sloppy.

That report is stating that the CSI dog was released in the living room. It does not say the CSI dog found anything in the bedroom.

The report states where the CSI dog alerted to:

The CSI dog was therefore deployed who gave specific alert indications to specific areas on the tiled floor area behind the sofa and on the curtain in the area that was in contact with the floor behind the sofa. This would indicate to the likely presence of human blood.

It does not say the CSI dog alerted in:

Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.
Veranda outside parent's bedroom.
Garden area directly under veranda.

[Carana]

You still do not understand the logic and science of the situation.

Suppose Eddie was a bomb detector dog. He alerts to Bombs but also to marshmallows.

At this stage we still only suspect that a Bomb or a Marshmallow has been there

Eddie smells the area

If he alerts it means either a bomb or a marshmallow is likely to have been present (he is not 100% accurate)

At this stage we suspect the presence of a bomb or a marshmallow.

Keela only reacts to Marshmallows

She smells the area

If she alerts we still only know only what we knew at the beginning- a bomb or marshmallow may have been there.

HOWEVER if Keela fails to alert, we have a strong reason to believe that Eddie reacted to a bomb

THE ONLY WAY WE GET NEW INFORMATION IS EDDIE POSITIVE, KEELA NEGATIVE.

It seems a bit more complicated that that as  Eddie's reacted to more than just "bombs" and "marshmallows". Marshmallows could be excluded if Keela didn't alert, but Eddie could still have been reacting to... the innocent presence of garden fertilizer or whatever components go into making them. Or he might have accurately detected a bomb.

[AnneGuedes]

I was trying to point out that cadaverine isn't necessarily a synethetic substance.

Synthesized NH2(CH2)5NH2 is used to train dogs. Eddie wasn't trained this way and didn't react to that isolated molecule. The alternative is human remains, which is prohibited (at least they say so).

[Redblossom]

Cites please- many of those were joint alerts by Eddie and Keela (which proves nothing)

Are you making things up? Which of those were alerted to by Keela...???

the cites  are inthe files, that is all the places Eddie alerted to with no mention of Keela alerting

[Redblossom]

As you don't do cites (still waiting for the last three) I will do it

ONE

Apartment 5a

The EVRD alerted in the:
Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.

Living room, behind sofa.

Veranda outside parent's bedroom.

Garden area directly under veranda.

My observation of the dog's behaviour in this instance was that the dog's behaviour changed immediately upon opening the front door to the apartment. He will normally remain in the sit position until released and tasked to search.
On this occasion he broke the stay and entered the apartment with an above average interest. His behaviour was such that I believed him to be 'in scent' and I therefore allowed him to free search without direction to allow him to identify the source of his interest. He did so alerting in the rear bedroom.

I released him from this and tasked him to continue to search. He did so alerting in an area to the rear of the sofa in the lounge.

The dog's behaviour for these alerts led me to the following opinions:

The first alert was given with the dogs head in the air without a positive area being identified. This is the alert given by him when there is no tangible evidence to be located only the remaining scent.

The second alert was one where a definitive area was evident. The CSI dog was therefore deployed who gave specific alert indications to specific areas on the tiled floor area behind the sofa and on the curtain in the area that was in contact with the floor behind the sofa. This would indicate to the likely presence of human blood.

The forensic science support officers were then deployed to recover items for laboratory analysis.

Both Eddie and Keela Alerted. Suggestive of blood, no suggestion of cadaver. Blood traces were recovered.

FAIL

Note that Keela was not deployed on the Verandah, or the Garden area. WHY NOT? Looks a little sloppy.

the while video is not available it was all of five hours so we dont know where keela was deployed, though one would think it would be recorded in the files...dont think mr Grime is sloppy at all....your example of both dogs reacting to the same place MUST mean blood is illogical and without proof

[Redblossom]

I have now listed the full information.

How many alerts were Eddie Yes, Keela No?

FOUR from the recorded  evidence possibly more in unrecorded

[AnneGuedes]

It seems a bit more complicated that that as  Eddie's reacted to more than just "bombs" and "marshmallows". Marshmallows could be excluded if Keela didn't alert, but Eddie could still have been reacting to... the innocent presence of garden fertilizer or whatever components go into making them. Or he might have accurately detected a bomb.

Garden fertilizer ! If the garden fertilizer smelt cadaver, nobody would buy it !
Eddie wasn't trained to identify, in a compound, the eventual presence of some components of cadaver scent. He was trained to recognize the combination of all components of cadaver scent. . This is why synthesized cadaverine wouldn't do.
Why are you trying to denigrate the dog, Carana, it wasn't proved the cadaver scent came from Madeleine body, so relax !
And besides, Eddie knew when he was at work, i.e when he had to find, or not, the scent he had been trained to recognize, and only that scent.

[AnneGuedes]

The only Eddie alert that was offered to Keela with no alert was cuddlecat, and that only after prompting and representation from Mr Grime.

No.

[Albertini]

The only Eddie alert that was offered to Keela with no alert was cuddlecat, and that only after prompting and representation from Mr Grime.

Where in the report does it say the CSI alerted in the following areas:

Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.
Veranda outside parent's bedroom.
Garden area directly under veranda.

[Eleanor]

Fertilizers often contain bull's blood and crushed bones and ashes.  Actually, it stinks when first laid.

[AnneGuedes]

FOUR from the recorded  evidence possibly more in unrecorded

Actually one is enough. And, chance or not, it was the first.

[Redblossom]

Cite for instances please.

Oh for petes sake

FOUR

parents room, wardrobe area
Kate mccanns trousers
Kate mccans blouse
Childs top


PROVEN pieces of Eddies alert but Keela said no, no blood, all on video

[AnneGuedes]

Human cadaver, smell it once, you never forget, is very specific. That's why Eddie didn't react to accidentally killed animals.

[Redblossom]

The only Eddie alert that was offered to Keela with no alert was cuddlecat, and that only after prompting and representation from Mr Grime.

See, even YOU can be wrong at times and of course  u will provide a CITE where keela was deployed on the cat
 

[Redblossom]

Cite for other times when it is clearly stated that Eddie alerted and Keela did not.

I can only find the cuddlecat incident where he says this specifically.

You need to stop busting a gut and read back