Was the refusal to partake in a reconstruction to their detriment?

[Rachel Granada]

If only that were true. Police develop case hypotheses early and sometimes they are so absurd that if anyone dared suggest it as a script for the Bill it would be rejected as incapable of belief. Take the Cardiff Five for example, I have written two books on it and I was proved right and the police wrong. They decided 5 innocent men were guilty and gathered evidence to back it up ignoring all evidence proving their innocence. Check out the Lynette White/ Cardiff 3 or 5 case. It beggars belief that such absurd beliefs got near a court. Then look at the Schiedammer Park Murder in the Netherlands. Police decided an 11 year old boy was the rapist and murderer of a 10 year old girl. Eventually the DNA proved him innocent, so they decided the star witness, the boy's saviour was guilty. Wrong again and an absurd hypothesis. There are plenty more like this too.

Excellent post. Dhingra. 

[Luz]

I am aware of the fact that he was on the field in this case and for most of them. What I am saying is that the final decisions are made by the judges of the Ministério Público.

INDEEDY, that was always something that was not understood either by the press or the public.
Not a single measure taken during the investigation could be made without the consent of the <Public Ministry-

Thanks for reminding this Montclair shiufffff(kiss on the forehead)

[ferryman]

And thirded.

Good post indeed.

[Luz]

getting back to the OP, and hopefully without hearing any banshee screams, for posting a hideho video, this is very revealing video extract from sky news, the full original video of whch has been pulled from youtube so I have only this source, you dont have to watch past the sky nterview

Notice how evident it is by the journalists questions that their not seeing to  being willing to go back did not make them look good, so yes, there was damage to their image

Some more examples of beng averse

From 4 20
And

Bansheeeeeeeeeeeeee  @)(++(*

Do you believe that the doubters have not seen this? I think they are like my cat when the bird lands on him, he fakes that he is asleep so he doesn't have to fight the damn bird as he was supposed to.

[Angelo222]

Dermot Murnaghan makes a very good point in that first video about the footage from the reconstruction going around the world yet the McCanns throw up every excuse under the sun to avoid doing one. The suggestion that it would somehow end up a media frenzy can easily be avoided by closing off the zone for a day.  It has been done in other cases so no reason why it cant be done in Praia da Luz.  In any event isn't it publicity that Madeleine needs?

Kate says they would go back if there was a good reason for doing so...could I suggest that reason is their missing daughter!!

[Luz]

If only that were true. Police develop case hypotheses early and sometimes they are so absurd that if anyone dared suggest it as a script for the Bill it would be rejected as incapable of belief. Take the Cardiff Five for example, I have written two books on it and I was proved right and the police wrong. They decided 5 innocent men were guilty and gathered evidence to back it up ignoring all evidence proving their innocence. Check out the Lynette White/ Cardiff 3 or 5 case. It beggars belief that such absurd beliefs got near a court. Then look at the Schiedammer Park Murder in the Netherlands. Police decided an 11 year old boy was the rapist and murderer of a 10 year old girl. Eventually the DNA proved him innocent, so they decided the star witness, the boy's saviour was guilty. Wrong again and an absurd hypothesis. There are plenty more like this too.

Ignoring how an investigation is carried is on is how it should be. Fortunately.

[icabodcrane]

Dermot Murnaghan makes a very good point in that last video about the footage from the reconstruction going around the world yet the McCanns throw up every excuse under the sun to avoid doing one. The suggestion that it would somehow end up a media frenzy can easily be avoided by closing off the zone for a day.  It has been done in other cases so no reason why it cant be done in Praia da Luz.  In any event isn't it publicity that Madeleine needs?

Yes,  I noticed that too Angelo  ...  he was suggesting that it could be a  positive  thing for the McCanns to do,  that would provide the opportunity for a refreshed and hugely wide reaching publicity campaign  (  almost exactly corresponding with the first anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance )

I was noticable that they did not respond to that point

[ferryman]

Dermot Murnaghan makes a very good point in that first video about the footage from the reconstruction going around the world yet the McCanns throw up every excuse under the sun to avoid doing one. The suggestion that it would somehow end up a media frenzy can easily be avoided by closing off the zone for a day.  It has been done in other cases so no reason why it cant be done in Praia da Luz.  In any event isn't it publicity that Madeleine needs?

Reconstructions need to be put in context.

A reconstruction would never have recreated accurately actual events leading to the shooting of Jean-Paul de Menezes.

And if there had been a tragic end to the harrowing ordeal Peter Voisey subjected his victim to, and they had relied, alone, on a reconstruction to try to fathom the truth, one of that little girl's family probably would have gone to prison for the crimes of Voisey.

A bid to recreate what went before (particularly to a standard of accuracy and precision required to serve standards of criminal justice) is just a non-starter.

[ferryman]

Yes,  I noticed that too Angelo  ...  he was suggesting that it could be a  positive  thing for the McCanns to do,  that would provide the opportunity for a refreshed and hugely wide reaching publicity campaign  (  almost exactly corresponding with the first anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance )

I was noticable that they did not respond to that point

The McCanns didn't throw up any excuses at all.

They were obliged to return.

They weren't enthusiastic and who can blame then?

No purpose in uncovering the truth of what happened to Madeleine would have been served.

[icabodcrane]

And that is exactly how miscarriages of justice occur. Stephen Miller was quite happy to talk to the police to eliminate himself from police inquiries more than once. And don't forget we know for a fact that he is innocent because Jeffrey Gafoor was later convicted of the murder by pleading guilty. Millerr did not g home for 4 years and 25 years after the murder of Lynette White remains damaged by that experience. He more than likely won't recover and that happened with police ignoring clear evidence of his innocence.

If there is a genuine intention to establish the truth then fine, but that is not always the case, so to answer your point, no I would not co-operate in the manner you suggest. I would say, here is my solicitor's contact details, arrange an appointment and we'll talk and I would do that to make sure that there are no distortions or misunderstandings later. If they want the truth rather than to prosecute me regardless of the facts they'd be happy with that. Having worked on many major miscarriages of justice my trust has to be earned, not impossible, but necessary.

I don't know anything about the case you have highlighted,  although I appreciate that having made a study of miscarriage of justice ,  you may be more aware than most about how it  comes about

In this case though,  in what way do you envisage that the proposed reconstruction might have led to a miscarriage of justice  ?

Why do you think the McCanns were right to be cynical of the motives of the police  ?   what  do think they feared might happen during a reconstruction  ...  indeed what could  have happened that might have led  to the McCanns being stitched up  ?

[Redblossom]

Dermot Murnaghan makes a very good point in that first video about the footage from the reconstruction going around the world yet the McCanns throw up every excuse under the sun to avoid doing one. The suggestion that it would somehow end up a media frenzy can easily be avoided by closing off the zone for a day.  It has been done in other cases so no reason why it cant be done in Praia da Luz.  In any event isn't it publicity that Madeleine needs?

Kate says they would go back if there was a good reason for doing so...could I suggest that reason is their missing daughter!!

The reconstruction was not going to be televised, it was a private police procedure to iron out inconsistencies, to take them  back through all their tracks and make sure what they said happened when and where was correct.....and to make sure the police had a better handle over that nights  events...and maybe new information and clues coming out....couldnt help noticing Gerry in one breath in the second video sayng hes not averse to it but in  the others havng such anger and contempt and indignation  in his face and words and asking what use it would be and generally acting like he had any say or control over what the police want to do! Or should do. Even sayng it was not just up to them to say yes or no but other people, well it wasnt up to him to say no ever as he was an arguido!! he had no choice. The brass neck! Also At the time the interview was conducted which was after all the correspondence with the PJ Gerry Mccann will have known it was not a reconstruction to be televised so why did he prance around Dermots questions?
 

the very fact that they and all those others OBJECTED to the police reconstruction after all the assurances  given and that UK authorities and lawyers and whatnots would be there too speaks volumes...no stone unturned my foot!!

[faithlilly]

I don't think Isabel Duarte was involved in their case at that time.

BTW are the Andrews and Philpott cases really the best cases with which to illustrate your point ?

[icabodcrane]

What is expected is that people follow the advice of their lawyers. The lawyers (IMHO) saw a fit-up coming as Amaral struggled with inadequate evidence (they knew that he was making them arguido only days before the law changed to make that not an option). In that situation, why give ammunition to a police operation set on proving that you did something of which you were innocent. Most of the 48 questions were fishing expeditions to build a case against the McCanns. The PJ have obviously never taken to cognitive interviewing- the psychologically and scientifically validated method now widely used in the UK, and rely instaead on the US bait and switch approach.

But Amaral had been removed from the case long before the  reconstruction was proposed and would have nothing to do with it 

Are you saying that the McCanns, or their lawyers,  thought that the man who replaced him, Paulo Rebelo,  was also  'out to get them' ?

[icabodcrane]

The whole tone of both the original investigation and the continued one was of an American style police operation- choose a target and get a confession. This technique has been shown to lead to major miscarriages of justice (this is after all a Justice Board.) For instance, in the US it is quite legal to mislead a suspect (about for instance DNA and Dogs) and then elicit a confession based on fear of death or long term imprisonment; US courts do not see that as illegal but English courts will not allow that under PACE or even previously under Judges Rules where such lying was cause to have the evidence thrown out.

Having had the chance to see the entire documentation of the case, it is obvious the the PJ are using investigative methods that are out of the Ark and are seen as ineffective compared with modern policing. They are hoist by their own petard as their techniques have been revealed by the publication of the investigation in a form that would happen nowhere else. Anyone familiar with modern criminology would see that their invetigative methods are way behind the times.

Thankyou,  I just wanted to clarify  that it wasn't just Amaral  (  as some kind of lone rougue cop  )  who the McCanns thought was trying to   'stitch them up'  ...  but the Portuguese police in general,  including the new man in charge of the case, Paulo Rebelo

[icabodcrane]

That is apparent on any reading of the files- the techniques used just creak. Nowhere is there any sign of a shadow investigation which would be normal practice in the UK after a failure such as theirs in the original investigation. The interviews appear crude and unplanned, and follow 'police suspicions' rather than verifiable facts. The files will be highly valued by criminologists who rarely get such a clear chance to assess an operation such as this from original sources- usually having to rely on bowdlerised reports.

Who knows, if they had run a reasonable investigation from the start (or even part way through) then the perpetrators (McCanns or abductors) maight have been caught.

This is not Xenophobia- I am equally hard on UK and particularly US police (who also are resistant to modern methods).

oh I agree that the Portuguse investigation was deeply flawed,  as many police investigations are  ( and  not only in Portugal  )  ...  how often have we heard  "lessons will be learned"  following shambolic investigations   ? 

What I am not convinced of, though,  is the suggestion that the Portuguese  police  ( even after Amaral was removed )  were intending to  'fit the McCanns up'  ...  right there under the eyes of the watching world,  and despite the unprecidented political interest and involvement

To me,  it is an absurd suggestion that has no basis in fact or evidence