Kate and Gerry and the jemmied shutter claim.

[G-Unit]

You clearly think this unlikely, so please explain what you think actually happened and why.

You draw your own conclusions and I will draw mine Alfred, but I will decline your request to share mine.

[Alfred R Jones]

You draw your own conclusions and I will draw mine Alfred, but I will decline your request to share mine.

Is there any point continuing this debate then?

[Mr Gray]

You draw your own conclusions and I will draw mine Alfred, but I will decline your request to share mine.

I don't think anyone is really interested

[Alfred R Jones]

OK.  At the risk of being given a warning for libel I am going to guess at the "sceptic" thinking here:

The McCanns deliberately lied to their family and friends that the shutters had been jemmied or broken because they wanted them to believe that they had left their children locked in a secure environment.  The fact that this lie would soon be uncovered and reported worldwide never occurred to them because they were in a bit of a tiz (what with having just hidden their daughter's body and all). 

Do I win a prize?

[Mr Gray]

False information from family and friends;

The shutters were broken, smashed, forced or jemmied.(Jon Corner, Brian Healy, Jill Renwick, Trish Cameron)

The apartment was locked. (Jon Corner, Philomena McCann, Trish Cameron)

The police were not doing enough (Jon Corner, Jill Renwick)

What a lot of mistakes.

We have never had so much information about any investigation so we have nothing to compare it too......there are probably just as many inconsistencies in every case....the police seem happy that the mccanns are not involved so it's good to see the experts agree with me rather than you

[mercury]

In the early days most people seemed to regard the patio door as the front door, so I am afraid that you are wrong.

After I had been on here for a short time I realsied the confusion and put out an impassioned plea that people got it right.

[I had been there and knew which was the front door. ] 


Then people started getting it right.

It doesn't matter what "most people seemed to regard"

Trish Cameron said the front door was lying open. I am sure Gerry Mccann knew the difference when he rang his sister.

[Brietta]

It doesn't matter what "most people seemed to regard"

Trish Cameron said the front door was lying open. I am sure Gerry Mccann knew the difference when he rang his sister.

I'm sure he did although considering the state he must have been in I would not have been surprised if he had forgotten his own name ... but I rather think the whole point of the discussion is that Trish, who was also distraught at the news that Madeleine was missing, did not know ... and she got it wrong.

Imagine making and receiving a call like that about your nearest and dearest, because I think there is a problem that there is a small section of society whose brains are hard wired to be incapable of doing that.

[faithlilly]

I'm sure he did although considering the state he must have been in I would not have been surprised if he had forgotten his own name ... but I rather think the whole point of the discussion is that Trish, who was also distraught at the news that Madeleine was missing, did not know ... and she got it wrong.

Imagine making and receiving a call like that about your nearest and dearest, because I think there is a problem that there is a small section of society whose brains are hard wired to be incapable of doing that.

And Jon Corner, Kate's dad et al also got it wrong and all used the 'jemmied' word in isolation ?

[Mr Gray]

And Jon Corner, Kate's dad et al also got it wrong and all used the 'jemmied' word in isolation ?

not in isolation...they would have all discussed this....that's why their reports are similar

[G-Unit]

not in isolation...they would have all discussed this....that's why their reports are similar

There are differences;

Brian Healy and Trish Cameron both used the 'jemmied ' word. Both said the door was open. Was that because they spoke to each other or because they were both phoned by Gerald, I wonder? 

Jon Corner and Jill Renwick both used broken and forced. Was that because they spoke to each other or because they were both phoned by Kate, I wonder?

[Alfred R Jones]

There are differences;

Brian Healy and Trish Cameron both used the 'jemmied ' word. Both said the door was open. Was that because they spoke to each other or because they were both phoned by Gerald, I wonder? 

Jon Corner and Jill Renwick both used broken and forced. Was that because they spoke to each other or because they were both phoned by Kate, I wonder?

Can I ask you again why you have dismissed the possibility that at the time they made the phone calls that the McCanns really did believe the shutters had been forced open?

[sadie]

It doesn't matter what "most people seemed to regard"

Trish Cameron said the front door was lying open. I am sure Gerry Mccann knew the difference when he rang his sister.

You cant be serious?

Of course it matters that everyone is talking the same door.


Even the Mccann friends had to be told to say the door at the end near the car park ... or the door near the Tapas.  They were getting it all muddled up it seems.

[stephen25000]

You cant be serious?

Of course it matters that everyone is talking the same door.


Even the Mccann friends had to be told to say the door at the end near the car park ... or the door near the Tapas.  They were getting it all muddled up it seems.

So it it jemmy time ?

[G-Unit]

Can I ask you again why you have dismissed the possibility that at the time they made the phone calls that the McCanns really did believe the shutters had been forced open?

Well, Gerald found them open, he said. Then he closed them. He never said anything to suggest they appeared to be broken when he did that.

[Benice]

Whose previous confusion? The statement given was the front door was lying open. Anyone who thnks patio doors are "the front door" must be a bit thick to begn with.

From Jane Tanners rog statement - re confusion over doors.  In her last answer she refers to the roadside door as the BACK door.


4078    “And Evie was in the cot.”
Reply    “Evie was in the cot yeah.”

4078    “And what was, if you were to go in through the, well I know we’ve discussed this in the office and it’s difficult to say the front door or the back door of the apartment because there’s some confusion.”
Reply    “Yeah.”


4078    “If we were to say poolside and roadside, would that make it clearer as to what I was referring to?”
Reply    “Yeah, yeah.”


4078    “Which, which entrance did you use mostly?”
Reply    “For checking or for anything?”


4078    “For anything. Was there a check, that you’d use mostly?”
Reply    “Err the back, the roadside entrance because you couldn’t actually get in to the err the poolside entrance but there was no key to get in from the outside so you could only get in there if it was unlocked. It was sort of like a, you know like patio doors have a…”

4078    “Yeah.”

------------------------------
The 3 ex detectives (can't remember their names now ) who went over to study the case themselves, had a map on a wall where IIRC -  they also described the patio door as the front door.   ( from memory)