Kate and Gerry and the jemmied shutter claim.

[Mr Gray]

There are differences;

Brian Healy and Trish Cameron both used the 'jemmied ' word. Both said the door was open. Was that because they spoke to each other or because they were both phoned by Gerald, I wonder? 

Jon Corner and Jill Renwick both used broken and forced. Was that because they spoke to each other or because they were both phoned by Kate, I wonder?

in this Telegraph article Trish Cameron uses the word broken.....how accurate are your sources

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1550670/Police-identify-Madeleine-suspect.html


Trish Cameron, Mr McCann’s sister, said she received a telephone call from her 39-year-old brother, a consultant cardiologist, who was "hysterical and crying his eyes out".

She said: "They had put the kids to bed at 7pm and checked on them every half an hour as they had dinner nearby with the rest of the party. Gerry said the window was open, the shutters broken and the door, which had been locked, hanging open.

[ferryman]

Tavares never said anything about "forced" or "gemmied" shutters.

And he thought the Mcanns were guilty ....

[Alfred R Jones]

Well, Gerald found them open, he said. Then he closed them. He never said anything to suggest they appeared to be broken when he did that.

Sorry, I though he told his relatives that night that he thought they'd been broken?  Isn't that what this whole thread is about?

[faithlilly]

Can I ask you again why you have dismissed the possibility that at the time they made the phone calls that the McCanns really did believe the shutters had been forced open?

Because Gerry had already tried opening the shutters and knew that they opened without much effort.

[Alfred R Jones]

Because Gerry had already tried opening the shutters and knew that they opened without much effort.

so?  If he thought the mechanism had broken why wouldn't it follow that they would be easy to open?

[G-Unit]

Sorry, I though he told his relatives that night that he thought they'd been broken?  Isn't that what this whole thread is about?

Neither of the McCanns have said anything officially about the shutters except that they were 'open'. It was friends and relatives who said they were told by the McCanns that they were broken, as you know.

[Alfred R Jones]

Neither of the McCanns have said anything officially about the shutters except that they were 'open'. It was friends and relatives who said they were told by the McCanns that they were broken, as you know.

No I'm sorry but that won't do.  In the heat of the moment the McCanns told their relatives that the shutters had been broken.  Why should they not have genuinely believed that to be the case?  I don't know what you mean about saying anythn "officially" but by the next day and the first statement it would almost certainly have become apparent or have been pointed out to them by police or others that the shutters were not actually broken.  So,once again I ask you: why have you completely dismissed the possibility that the McCanns genuinely believed the shutters had been broken in the immediate aftermath of the disappearance?

[G-Unit]

No I'm sorry but that won't do.  In the heat of the moment the McCanns told their relatives that the shutters had been broken.  Why should they not have genuinely believed that to be the case?  I don't know what you mean about saying anythn "officially" but by the next day and the first statement it would almost certainly have become apparent or have been pointed out to them by police or others that the shutters were not actually broken.  So,once again I ask you: why have you completely dismissed the possibility that the McCanns genuinely believed the shutters had been broken in the immediate aftermath of the disappearance?

If anyone knows how these shutters work it would help. I have only used the wooden German ones, which were much heavier than these metal ones and much too heavy to raise from outside. I know this because I watched two very fit men try once. 

If you forced these metal shutters up in such a way that they jammed, for example, they wouldn't go down again when you used the strap inside as Gerry did. If the mechanism inside the top broke, they couldn't be raised using the strap.

The shutters in question were open and went back down when lowered with, I assume, the strap. Therefore not showing any sign of breakage by being jammed up. The only way they could be broken therefore was if the mechanism was broken, meaning they couldn't be raised using the strap. As far as I know that wasn't tried, so no opinion could have been reached..

[Alfred R Jones]

If anyone knows how these shutters work it would help. I have only used the wooden German ones, which were much heavier than these metal ones and much too heavy to raise from outside. I know this because I watched two very fit men try once. 

If you forced these metal shutters up in such a way that they jammed, for example, they wouldn't go down again when you used the strap inside as Gerry did. If the mechanism inside the top broke, they couldn't be raised using the strap.

The shutters in question were open and went back down when lowered with, I assume, the strap. Therefore not showing any sign of breakage by being jammed up. The only way they could be broken therefore was if the mechanism was broken, meaning they couldn't be raised using the strap. As far as I know that wasn't tried, so no opinion could have been reached..

You think all this went through the McCanns' minds before calling their families?  The y found the shutters open and assumed they had been broken.  That's what they told their families.  It's not that far fetched or unlikely is it?  Be honest now.

[G-Unit]

You think all this went through the McCanns' minds before calling their families?  The y found the shutters open and assumed they had been broken.  That's what they told their families.  It's not that far fetched or unlikely is it?  Be honest now.

Gerald lowered them though, so he knew they weren't broken. They worked.

[Alfred R Jones]

Gerald lowered them though, so he knew they weren't broken. They worked.

Why are you being so obtuse?  He believed they had been broken into.  What law states that shutters which have been forced up cannot subsequently be lowered?

[Mr Gray]

Gerald lowered them though, so he knew they weren't broken. They worked.

What you are suggesting is ridiculous. if the mccanns wished to stage a break in then they would not have opened the shutters from the inside...with no damage from the outside...that would give the game away...unless they knew the shutters could be opened fairly easy from the outside...
   IF they knew the shutters could be opened easily from the outside then why assume they had been forced....that would give the game away....there is no logic in your accusations and you cannot give a reason as to why the mccanns would lie

[faithlilly]

Why are you being so obtuse?  He believed they had been broken into.  What law states that shutters which have been forced up cannot subsequently be lowered?

Kate says in her book that Gerry found the shutters could be opened from the outside as well as the inside. Nothing about thinking they had been broken and that's why he could open them.

[Mr Gray]

Kate says in her book that Gerry found the shutters could be opened from the outside as well as the inside. Nothing about thinking they had been broken and that's why he could open them.

Shutters that could be opened from the outside support an easy break in...so why would Gerry lie about the shutters...he didn't

[Alfred R Jones]

Kate says in her book that Gerry found the shutters could be opened from the outside as well as the inside. Nothing about thinking they had been broken and that's why he could open them.

Did Kate start writing her book that night then?