Author Topic: How the murders were carried out.  (Read 17995 times)

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Offline Tim Invictus

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 09:08:51 PM »
Occam's razor...

Murphy^s Law ......

Offline Matthew Wyse

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2012, 09:36:33 PM »
Good precis of how it could have been done. However, it has been suggested that the upstairs phone may not have been moved until after the murders. All Jeremy had to do was take the kitchen phone off the hook then Neville wouldn't have been able to use the bedroom phone (only one phone line into the house), hence his haste to get to the phone downstairs to hang it up. How Sheila was sedated (and she would have had to have been for the plan to work) I'm not sure. Does chloroform leave any trace in the bloodstream which would have shown up on the post mortem?

I go with the rendering her unconscious theory as well and all it would have taken was his hand over her mouth for a short time.  Didn't somebody say Sheila had nail marks on her arm as well as Neville?
Most people suspect the truth but few are able to admit it.

simong

  • Guest
Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 11:40:38 PM »
Contd..

Nevill Bamber got past Jeremy even after sustaining four/five bullet wounds to his left arm, neck, jaw and head and still managed to struggle downstairs leaving a trail of blood on the stair/hall carpet and on wallpaper as he attempted to get to the telephone in the kitchen to summon help.  One must remember that the bedroom telephone had been conveniently removed some time earlier in order to prevent June and Nevill summoning help from their bedroom.

From the position of the bedroom door, Jeremy shot the now standing June again fatally killing her where she then stood between the bed and the bedroom door. He would have needed to reload his weapon by this point, something he hadn't planned on, he didn't realise that he would need more than 10 rounds to do the job which up until this point had taken a total of 20 bullets.  He was left with no alternative but to quickly follow Nevill downstairs and assault him with the rifle butt in what turned out to be a savage and brutal attack. Things were going wrong now, how could he possibly pass this carnage off on petite Sheila?  Having floored Nevill he would have to have gone for more ammunition and reloaded the rifle before pumping three more shots into Nevill killing him.

Jeremy was then left with the task of murdering the sedated Sheila as she slept through it all on her bed upstairs. Sheila was carried through to the master bedroom and shot through the neck.  The bullet fragmented and Bamber was left with no alternative but to shoot her again as she lay on the floor.  The second bullet killed her instantly.

Hello John, Thanks for posting up your theory of what happened on that night. I have spent a lot of time trying to work out what happened that night. So many things just don't add up.

As you know, i am not an advocate for the twins being killed first. No point going over old ground so i will address a few other things that you raise. Why would Nevill flee downstairs leaving the killer upstairs? If it happens how you state and the killer starts shooting immediately on seeing Nevill, then Nevill wouldn't know if the twins or Sheila were injured or worse. I don't feel that an ex services man would try and raise the alarm and leave other family members vulnerable upstairs. Surely he would have fought for his life upstairs. I believe Nevill followed or chased the killer downstairs when the ammunition was expended in their rifle.

I also don't feel Sheila was drugged either.  There is no mention in Venezis post mortem of any type of sedative in Sheila's system, only her prescribed medication and Cannabis.

Any thoughts on Nevill's four head wounds and there being only three shell casings in the kitchen? Do you still think that the Twins were shot once and then returned to, or do you feel they were shot in one episode?

Hope you don't mind the questions John and thanks again for posting up your thoughts on what happened that night. It is interesting to read a theory on what happened from someone who thinks he is guilty.

Offline puglove

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 11:50:54 PM »
Hallo, Si. I'm sure the boys were killed in one episode, in almost precise arcs. I also think that they were shot first. Ralph and June wouldn't have known if they were alive, injured or dead, they didn't get the opportunity to go into their room and find out.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

simong

  • Guest
Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2012, 12:09:49 AM »
Hallo, Si. I'm sure the boys were killed in one episode, in almost precise arcs. I also think that they were shot first. Ralph and June wouldn't have known if they were alive, injured or dead, they didn't get the opportunity to go into their room and find out.

That's my point though Pugs. Ralphy wouldn't have known whether the twins were hurt or not, so he surely wouldn't have left the killer upstairs with a rifle and ammunition whilst he tried to make a phonecall to the rozzers downstairs. Wouldn't he have tried to disarm the killer immediately?

Offline puglove

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2012, 12:18:30 AM »
Sigh. I miss being called Pugs! I've always said - at which point would Ralph have left the terrible situation to call anyone - hang on a minute, Sheila love, hold that thought while I nip downstairs and call your useless, feckless brother. Poor Ralph never made a phone call. The phone would have been covered in blood. And Ralph would have told JB to STAY AWAY. Otherwise he would have been inviting him to certain injury, or death.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

simong

  • Guest
Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2012, 12:28:30 AM »
You will always be Pugs to me. Hope you are well by the way.


Nevill's body being found downstairs is a dilemna in itself. We can be almost certain he is shot upstairs and downstairs. There is some sort of break between the initial shooting to Nevill's death because he manages to get downstairs after being shot four times. I would argue if he was being chased, he would not have reached the kitchen. Personally i feel, Ralph was pursuing the killer downstairs. I have always thought that the killer had to go downstairs to reload. I reckon the killer thought the murders could be committed without a reload and had no extra ammunition and had to go downstairs. What are your thoughts Pugs?

Offline puglove

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2012, 12:35:34 AM »
As has been said on here, maybe JB was taken by suprise that a couple of bullets weren't enough to kill adults, especially as they moved about. I'm fine by the way, and it's lovely to hear from you!! JB (or accomplice) obviously had to get downstairs to reload. He was either slow with that, or the gun jammed. Hence the terrible beating that Ralph suffered in the kitchen. What I've always wondered is...if a piece of the stock was broken off during that beating, why is the gun on Sheila (and the gun held up by the copper) intact?
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

simong

  • Guest
Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2012, 12:42:24 AM »
I am not sure if there is any mention of the size of the piece of stock broken. Could be very small i suppose. (I do feel awkward using the phrase very small, must be a man thing)  8()-000(

Off to bed now Pugs. Speak soon.

Offline puglove

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2012, 12:44:03 AM »
And why does Mike go on and on about a silencer, and totally ignore the huge damage and truama that a results from a gun shot wound? It's not a bloody chinese burn. He's got Sheila dancing about the house, hiding from the police and barking like a dog with a bleeding wound in her throat, and Ralph skipping downstairs and asking JB if he wouldn't mind popping round, when at least he's got injuries to his arm and shoulder, and possibly extensive damage to his face and mouth. Total bollox.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2012, 12:45:37 AM »
I am not sure if there is any mention of the size of the piece of stock broken. Could be very small i suppose. (I do feel awkward using the phrase very small, must be a man thing)  8()-000(

Off to bed now Pugs. Speak soon.

Goodnight, Si. But there is an image of the piece of stock on the kitchen floor. Big enough to see.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2012, 01:00:58 AM »
It's ridiculous fantasy to suggest that, if Ralph had the opportunity to make one phone call while Sheila rampaged around the house with a loaded gun, it would be to JB. Apparently, JB had been working hard all day, he might not even wake up and hear the phone, he could do b....r all about the situation, Ralph wouldn't have wanted JB to walk into such a terrible scenario, and by this stage Ralph needed the police and at least one ambulance. He would have done what anyone else would have done. He would have called 999. If he could.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2012, 01:13:19 AM »
And I don't care who gets to hear the decision first. We all know what it will be. Do not pass go, do not collect 100 pounds, do not make any plans for the next 10 years. Jackie, if you'd buttoned your gums, and not interfered and shouted like a manic fish-wife, JB might have been in with a chance. Who says there's no such thing as karma?
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2012, 01:31:13 AM »
Jackie, you weird old gimmer. I'm sorry about your raison d'etre. But as sure as night follows day, and my lovely swallows return to my stables, JB will stay where he belongs. Feel free to insult me tomorrrow. Water off a duck's back, old lady. She who laughs last.......
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline John

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2012, 03:22:57 AM »
Jackie, you weird old gimmer. I'm sorry about your raison d'etre. But as sure as night follows day, and my lovely swallows return to my stables, JB will stay where he belongs. Feel free to insult me tomorrrow. Water off a duck's back, old lady. She who laughs last.......

Hey Shona...you have just reminded me.  My house martins and swallows are late this year.  I keep a note each year when they first arrive back from Africa and it was 6 April last year but 24 April in 2010.  We had a bumper year for the house martins last year because of all the good weather, there must be about 16 nests under the eaves.




Three House Martin chicks awaiting maw and paw's return.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 03:30:36 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.