Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.

[Anna]

thur 17 April 2014

Session 1

Session 2

[Brietta]

I have been reading a description of the ammunition used which killed Reeva Steenkamp as detailed by the State pathologist professor Gert Saayman, and the nature of the injuries she sustained as a result of its use. 

Taking Oscar Pretorius’s account at face value, why did he think it was permissible to fire that at anyone caught like a rat in a trap in what he knew to be the confined space of the toilet cubicle?

If he considered himself in immediate danger I would imagine viewing the effect of a warning shot would have had any intruder cowering in terror and happy to wait quietly for the police or security to arrive.


- The "black talon" or "ranger" ammunition, made by US-based firm Winchester, is designed to "open up, flatten out and mushroom when striking human tissue", Saayman said.
"The usual result is it folds out like the petals of flower. They were specifically designed by the manufacturer to have very sharp jagged edges. This projectile was designed to cause maximum damage. It has a black metal jacket.

"If a surgeon were to operate on a patient shot in this nature you have to be careful as you can easily cut yourself on these edges."   
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/oscar-pistorius-vomits-reeva-steenkamp-shooting

[stephen25000]

I have been reading a description of the ammunition used which killed Reeva Steenkamp as detailed by the State pathologist professor Gert Saayman, and the nature of the injuries she sustained as a result of its use. 

Taking Oscar Pretorius’s account at face value, why did he think it was permissible to fire that at anyone caught like a rat in a trap in what he knew to be the confined space of the toilet cubicle?

If he considered himself in immediate danger I would imagine viewing the effect of a warning shot would have had any intruder cowering in terror and happy to wait quietly for the police or security to arrive.


- The "black talon" or "ranger" ammunition, made by US-based firm Winchester, is designed to "open up, flatten out and mushroom when striking human tissue", Saayman said.
"The usual result is it folds out like the petals of flower. They were specifically designed by the manufacturer to have very sharp jagged edges. This projectile was designed to cause maximum damage. It has a black metal jacket.

"If a surgeon were to operate on a patient shot in this nature you have to be careful as you can easily cut yourself on these edges."   
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/oscar-pistorius-vomits-reeva-steenkamp-shooting

Well said.

I completely agree.

[abs]

I have been reading a description of the ammunition used which killed Reeva Steenkamp as detailed by the State pathologist professor Gert Saayman, and the nature of the injuries she sustained as a result of its use. 

Taking Oscar Pretorius’s account at face value, why did he think it was permissible to fire that at anyone caught like a rat in a trap in what he knew to be the confined space of the toilet cubicle?

If he considered himself in immediate danger I would imagine viewing the effect of a warning shot would have had any intruder cowering in terror and happy to wait quietly for the police or security to arrive.


- The "black talon" or "ranger" ammunition, made by US-based firm Winchester, is designed to "open up, flatten out and mushroom when striking human tissue", Saayman said.
"The usual result is it folds out like the petals of flower. They were specifically designed by the manufacturer to have very sharp jagged edges. This projectile was designed to cause maximum damage. It has a black metal jacket.

"If a surgeon were to operate on a patient shot in this nature you have to be careful as you can easily cut yourself on these edges."   
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/oscar-pistorius-vomits-reeva-steenkamp-shooting

That is a very good point. A normal person would have yelled: "Reeva, Reeva, call security, call the police!", knowing he had the advantage standing there with a lethal weapon pointed at the door.
Of course his excuse would be that he generally felt vulnerable because of his leg-stumps.
He is going to feel awfully vulnerable in jail with those stumps, that is for sure, and I don´t feel good about that,but he made his bed.
That is, IF he gets convicted, I think that judge is "babying" him a tad, asking if he is tired and needs his nappy. That worries me.

[Wonderfulspam]

That is a very good point. A normal person would have yelled: "Reeva, Reeva, call security, call the police!", knowing he had the advantage standing there with a lethal weapon pointed at the door.
Of course his excuse would be that he generally felt vulnerable because of his leg-stumps.
He is going to feel awfully vulnerable in jail with those stumps, that is for sure, and I don´t feel good about that,but he made his bed.
That is, IF he gets convicted, I think that judge is "babying" him a tad, asking if he is tired and needs his nappy. That worries me.

The judge has either got to be seriously stupid or totally bent if she don't find him guilty of murder.

I've watched about 10 full days of the trial now & his pathetic story has been demolished IMO

[abs]

The judge has either got to be seriously stupid or totally bent if she don't find him guilty of murder.

I've watched about 10 full days of the trial now & his pathetic story has been demolished IMO

In my ears too. He slips up on too many things.
Only thing that gives me some doubt is that his former girlfriend testified that he had rushed to the bathroom area with his gun before thinking there was an intruder - wasn´t it like that (haven´t seen that much of the trial - only about five days and then some highlights).
Could be that he has some "hero complex", yes, again out of his insecurity because of those stumps.

[steve_trousers]

Who would walk into a restaurant, with friends, for dinner, with a loaded gun and then when it goes off 'by accident' immediately ask his mate to take the blame for it. He wasnt on his stumps then.

He sounds like a total arsehole and a good advert for gun prohibition. Even if he did think it was an intruder he shot through the door 4 times without knowing if this intruder had a gun.

[abs]

Who would walk into a restaurant, with friends, for dinner, with a loaded gun and then when it goes off 'by accident' immediately ask his mate to take the blame for it. He wasnt on his stumps then.

He sounds like a total arsehole and a good advert for gun prohibition. Even if he did think it was an intruder he shot through the door 4 times without knowing if this intruder had a gun.

I think he has this inferiority complex whether he is wearing his prosthetic legs or not, but I agree, he seems to be  an a-hole through and throuogh - and that whiny VOICE! 

[Tim Invictus]

Jesus wept, Pistorius's KEY defence witness Dickson must be quite the worst 'expert' ever to testify in a court! He did score one good point when he totally refuted Pistorius's own evidence regarding the magazine rack! Surely 2 open apologies for misleading the court before the morning tea break must be some kind of record! 

Gerrie Nel dissected a turnip today! I bet all Oscar's coming 'experts' are burning the midnight oil!

[Myster]

I think he has this inferiority complex whether he is wearing his prosthetic legs or not, but I agree, he seems to be  an a-hole through and throuogh - and that whiny VOICE! 

Good to see you're on the right side of the fence for once, abs ! 

[Brietta]

Jesus wept, Pistorius's KEY defence witness Dickson must be quite the worst 'expert' ever to testify in a court! He did score one good point when he totally refuted Pistorius's own evidence regarding the magazine rack! Surely 2 open apologies for misleading the court before the morning tea break must be some kind of record! 

Gerrie Nel dissected a turnip today! I bet all Oscar's coming 'experts' are burning the midnight oil!

Don't know how many experts are going to risk their reputations testifying for him.

The pathologist they hired in time to attend the autopsy has confirmed he will not take the stand.

Possibly explains why they used a geologist.

[abs]

Good to see you're on the right side of the fence for once, abs ! 

LOL, Myster!

[Brietta]

Apologies, I should have posted a link in my previous post where I claimed Oscar Pistorius's witness was not prepared to take the stand on his behalf, there are quite a few -

Expert hired by Pistorius won't testify
Updated: 05:44, Friday April 18, 2014

A star pathologist hired by Oscar Pistorius says he will not testify at the athlete's murder trial, in another blow for his defence after a week of savage cross-examination.

Private forensic pathologist Reggie Perumal - who joined Pistorius's hand-picked team soon after Reeva Steenkamp was killed on Valentine's Day morning 2013 - will not take the stand, amid suggestions his post-mortem findings support key parts of the prosecution's case.

Perumal was hired by Pistorius in time to attend the model's autopsy.

When asked if he would testify, the Durban-based pathologist told AFP 'no, ma'am'.

'I think you're aware that I can't say anything right now.'

Perumal's absence from the witness box casts further doubt on the believability of Pistorius' story, after a week in which the Paralympic star and one of his hired experts were torn to shreds by prosecutor Gerrie Nel.

On Thursday, Nel hammered defence expert Roger Dixon, a forensic geologist who testified on key elements of the Pistorius crime scene, including the order of the bullets that hit Steenkamp.

Nel derided the quality of the expert's testimony, accusing him of 'misleading' the court.

'I am not trying to mislead the court,' Dixon said.

Pistorius has pleaded not guilty to intentionally killing Steenkamp, a 29-year-old law graduate and aspiring reality television star, saying he mistook her for an intruder in his upmarket Pretoria villa.

The state alleges the 27-year-old Olympian and Paralympic gold medallist shot his girlfriend in a fit of rage.

State pathologist Gert Saayman said vegetable matter in Steenkamp's stomach suggested she ate about two hours prior to her death at 3.17am, a finding that conflicts with Pistorius' version of events that the couple were peacefully asleep at that time.

'To the best of my recollection he was in agreement,' said Saayman about Perumal.

'We must be, so to speak, on the same page before we leave the autopsy room,' he said.

Instead of Perumal, the defence called Jan Botha, a former state pathologist who has carried out approximately 25000 autopsies.

Botha disputed Saayman's conclusion, saying that determining the time of death through gastric emptying is guesswork, calling it a 'highly controversial and inexact science'.

The trial has been adjourned until May 5.

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=968746

[sadie]

Just been catching up on some footage from the trial.  Pistorius at one stage in his cross examination last week responded to Nel that his memory wasn't very good at the moment.     I suppose that's one excuse for the inconsistencies in his responses.

Thanks for linking to the videos Anna.

With the mental battering he received at the beginning, along with the trauma of the whole thing his memory is unlikely to be good atm.  My bet is that his mind will not stop racing and whirling.

That battering onslaught at the beginning of the cross examinationwas disgraceful; it was used to demean, belittle and totally undermine him before he had started.

If Justice cant be served without such deliberate undermining by the prosecution, then what is the point of so called Justice.  Cos it aint true Justice.



Tin hat on, bunkered down

[Wonderfulspam]

With the mental battering he received at the beginning, along with the trauma of the whole thing his memory is unlikely to be good atm.  My bet is that his mind will not stop racing and whirling.

That battering onslaught at the beginning of the cross examinationwas disgraceful; it was used to demean, belittle and totally undermine him before he had started.

If Justice cant be served without such deliberate undermining by the prosecution, then what is the point of so called Justice.  Cos it aint true Justice.



Tin hat on, bunkered down

That battering onslaught at the beginning of the cross examinationwas disgraceful;


I watched it all & thought that Mr Nel was pretty soft on him really.