Anything and everything

[AnneGuedes]

If German or Dutch citizens had reported any similar instances to their own police, LP may not have had a copy.

If any non-British nationals had reported any such incidents in the area whilst there, the local police force to contact would have been the GNR in a rural area, wouldn't it? And that it would be the GNR's responsibility to pass on suspicions of serious crimes beyond their mandate to the PJ?

Carana, a crime committed in Portugal whatever the nationality of the offender and offended is Portugal Justice business. You can't force people to report this kind of crime, especially if they have introduced themselves the perpetrator (then there's no breaking-in).  I know that many will hide it out of shame or thinking it's better for the child, like rape was concealed (now it's reported much more). If there's breaking-in it concerns the PJ, not the GNR. If it's a sexual crime, it concerns a special brigade in the PJ.

[sadie]

Carana, a crime committed in Portugal whatever the nationality of the offender and offended is Portugal Justice business. You can't force people to report this kind of crime, especially if they have introduced themselves the perpetrator (then there's no breaking-in).  I know that many will hide it out of shame or thinking it's better for the child, like rape was concealed (now it's reported much more). If there's breaking-in it concerns the PJ, not the GNR. If it's a sexual crime, it concerns a special brigade in the PJ.

Anne I cannot anymore quote where I found it, but it was on record that the PJ refused to look for certain missing kids, making some excuse.

As much has, the document has probably been whitewashed out. 

Someone is making a great job of whitewashing out lots of documents that are against the PJ , or help the Mccanns .

It wouldn't surprise me if we were helping them, actually, by identifying everthing that might be troublesome to them.

Screeshots are needed.

[LagosBen]

There is evidence, you just dont want to accept it and instead prefer to believe that Kate McCAnn publically lied in her book about the British Consul, the GNR and the Leicestershire police - not to mention the families who came forward to relate their experiences of sexual predators entering their apartments and abusing their childen - who you apparently prefer to think are all a figment of Kate's imagination.   

From Kate's book. - regarding information from the files.
 
 Quote
In the meantime I set to work on the files................................................I spent hours scanning through.........................................  Then I began on the few sections that were in English, primarily statements from British witnesses of information forwarded to the PJ  BY THE LEICESTESHIRE POLICE...
 
One of the most concerning and upsetting pieces of information to emerge quite early was the record of sexual crimes against children in the Algarve...........  I read of five cases of British children on holiday being sexually abused in their beds whille their parents slept in   another room      In three further incidents children encountered an intruder in their bedrooms who was presumably  disturbed before he had the chance to carry out an assault.   
 
I guess these were the reports  Bill Henderson, the British consul at the time of Madeleins abducton had told me about.   
 
These incidents had occurred within an hour's drive of Pdl over the three years prior to Madeleine's disappearance .  The PJ had never mentioned any of them to us.   In fact I gathered FROM THE FILES some of them hadn't even been recorded by the authorities at the time they were reported (evidently they were not considered to be actual crimes)   So they might never have been brought to light if the parents of these children hadn't been brave enough to come forward to the British Police after Madelieine was taken and relive their nightmares.    They did so in the belief that there could be a link between what had happened to their children and what happened to her.      It broke my heart to READ the terrible accounts of these devastated parents.........................................................
End quote

If you really think the above is just a a pack of lies and that Kate didn't mind that in telling them she was letting the Leicestershire Police, the British Consul and the GNR know what a liar she was - maybe you could explain why she would take such a 'suicidal' decision and decide to reveal herself as a massive liar to those quite important people?


 
   

 

[Benice]

I'm not saying she's lying but that Mrs McCann tells what she wants  (no source is given, this is not serious) and people believe her story telling if they want. You can't suppose that the diplomatic, GNR and PJ authorities have read "Madeleine" ! And if one did by chance, would s/he have time to loose inquiring and proving that Mrs McCann tells or not what suits her agenda ?
The myth is : British (how extraordinary ! not German, not Dutch...) kids were sexually abused  IN BED by a perpetrator who introduced himself how ? Big mystery ! As it is a big mystery why the parents didn't contact the PJ.
Instead of spreading this myth, Benice, why don't you write to Mrs McCann asking for some evidence ?

So do you think the British Consul is a liar and the Leicestershire police are also lying about the British families who contacted them after Madeleine disappeared?   Or are you saying it is the British families who are lying when they came forward and related their own experiences re sexual predators assaulting their children?   Or are you saying Kate simply made the whole chapter up and none of the above ever happened?   Please clarify.

The first direct contact with the police for the public is with the GNR - not the PJ.    But you already know that don't you.

Anyone who thinks KM would be stupid enough to tell enormous porkies about the British Consul, the GNR and the Leicestershire police in a book which is going to read by thousands - and make claims in it which could be proved to be lies in an instant - is seriously deluding themselves IMO.      Kate would have to be simple-minded to even contemplate such a imbecilic move.

Why don't you take your own advice and write to the British Consul and the Leicestershire Police and ask them whether Kate's claims about them is a pack of lies  instead of trying to spread the myth that what Kate wrote about them and the British families in her book never happened.   

[LagosBen]

So do you think the British Consul is a liar and the Leicestershire police are also lying about the British families who contacted them after Madeleine disappeared?   Or are you saying it is the British families who are lying when they came forward and related their own experiences re sexual predators assaulting their children?   Or are you saying Kate simply made the whole chapter up and none of the above ever happened?   Please clarify.

The first direct contact with the police for the public is with the GNR - not the PJ.    But you already know that don't you.

Anyone who thinks KM would be stupid enough to tell enormous porkies about the British Consul, the GNR and the Leicestershire police in a book which is going to read by thousands - and make claims in it which could be proved to be lies in an instant - is seriously deluding themselves IMO.      Kate would have to be simple-minded to even contemplate such a imbecilic move.

Why don't you take your own advice and write to the British Consul and the Leicestershire Police and ask them whether Kate's claims about them is a pack of lies  instead of trying to spread the myth that what Kate wrote about them and the British families in her book never happened.

Benice Benice -Don't you get it yet? Everyone is lying except the Portuguese contingent on here and elsewhere.

And Snr.Amaral is awaiting his Sainthood.

[TTSOFAFM]

There is evidence, you just dont want to accept it and instead prefer to believe that Kate McCAnn publically lied in her book about the British Consul, the GNR and the Leicestershire police - not to mention the families who came forward to relate their experiences of sexual predators entering their apartments and abusing their childen - who you apparently prefer to think are all a figment of Kate's imagination.   

From Kate's book. - regarding information from the files.
 
 Quote
In the meantime I set to work on the files................................................I spent hours scanning through.........................................  Then I began on the few sections that were in English, primarily statements from British witnesses of information forwarded to the PJ  BY THE LEICESTESHIRE POLICE...
 
One of the most concerning and upsetting pieces of information to emerge quite early was the record of sexual crimes against children in the Algarve...........  I read of five cases of British children on holiday being sexually abused in their beds whille their parents slept in   another room      In three further incidents children encountered an intruder in their bedrooms who was presumably  disturbed before he had the chance to carry out an assault.   
 
I guess these were the reports  Bill Henderson, the British consul at the time of Madeleins abducton had told me about.   
 
These incidents had occurred within an hour's drive of Pdl over the three years prior to Madeleine's disappearance .  The PJ had never mentioned any of them to us.   In fact I gathered FROM THE FILES some of them hadn't even been recorded by the authorities at the time they were reported (evidently they were not considered to be actual crimes)   So they might never have been brought to light if the parents of these children hadn't been brave enough to come forward to the British Police after Madelieine was taken and relive their nightmares.    They did so in the belief that there could be a link between what had happened to their children and what happened to her.      It broke my heart to READ the terrible accounts of these devastated parents.........................................................
End quote

If you really think the above is just a a pack of lies and that Kate didn't mind that in telling them she was letting the Leicestershire Police, the British Consul and the GNR know what a liar she was - maybe you could explain why she would take such a 'suicidal' decision and decide to reveal herself as a massive liar to those quite important people?


 
   

Spot on Benice 

[AnneGuedes]

So do you think the British Consul is a liar
I'm sure he's not. Do you have a oral or written (not on tabloïd) cite of him speaking of kids sexually assaulted in the Algarve ? If you don't, you are spreading a myth.

and the Leicestershire police are also lying about the British families who contacted them after Madeleine disappeared?   
Same thing. Have you a oral or written cite ? If you don't, that's myth spreading.

Or are you saying it is the British families who are lying when they came forward and related their own experiences re sexual predators assaulting their children?   
I'm not saying that. You can't mention "British families" in such a serious occurrence without stating they're identified by authorities.

Or are you saying Kate simply made the whole chapter up and none of the above ever happened?   Please clarify.
If you don't provide the cites I'm requesting above, I'll have to say that it's a question of belief.

The first direct contact with the police for the public is with the GNR - not the PJ.    But you already know that don't you.
Not at all, you're wrong. The 112 sends you what you need. When a fire started in my building, they sent the firemen, not the GNR.

Anyone who thinks KM would be stupid enough to tell enormous porkies about the British Consul, the GNR and the Leicestershire police in a book which is going to read by thousands - and make claims in it which could be proved to be lies in an instant - is seriously deluding themselves IMO.      Kate would have to be simple-minded to even contemplate such a imbecilic move.
Anyone who thinks that authorities will read "Madeleine" risks to be deluded : they don't have time for that !

Why don't you take your own advice and write to the British Consul and the Leicestershire Police and ask them whether Kate's claims about them is a pack of lies  instead of trying to spread the myth that what Kate wrote about them and the British families in her book never happened.
I'm not interested in that, Benice. I've heard sad stories of this type : people invite a guy for a drink, two, three, the guy can't drive his car because he's drunk, he's invited to stay and takes (or tries to, he's drunk..) advantage of the situation. A bit hard to confess to the police... And what a shame to have introduced a perpetrator...

[Benice]

Benice said
Why don't you take your own advice and write to the British Consul and the Leicestershire Police and ask them whether Kate's claims about them is a pack of lies  instead of trying to spread the myth that what Kate wrote about them and the British families in her book never happened.

Anne said
I'm not interested in that, Benice. I've heard sad stories of this type : people invite a guy for a drink, two, three, the guy can't drive his car because he's drunk, he's invited to stay and takes (or tries to, he's drunk..) advantage of the situation. A bit hard to confess to the police... And what a shame to have introduced a perpetrator...-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Apart from the above - I'm glad to see from the rest of your post that you don't think the British Consul is a liar Anne - and  I am sure you will also agree that the families who came forward to report the sexual abuse of their children to the UK police would not be publicly identified - for very obvious reasons.
 
IMO it's somewhat disingenuous to claim that people who actually played an active part in this case i.e. the British Consul, members of the Leicestershire police and also even members of the GNR would all be too busy to read Kate's book - and therefore she could safely fill it with libellous comments about them without fear of being exposed.   Perhaps you should rethink that one - as it strongly suggests that Kate and the people involved in checking her book before it was published - were all gibbering idiots.
 
Your suggestion that all of the British parents who reported, firstly to the GNR and then the UK police, the vile sexual attacks on their children whilst on holiday in Portugal were all drunks who invited paedaphiles in and therefore were to blame for the abuse their children suffered,  is profoundly insulting to all of those British families.     

If you are determined to propagate and spread the myth that these sexual attacks on so many British children did not happen - or that they did not happen as their parents reported - I think you need to come up with a more convincing  'story' than that one,
 
Here is an extract from a letter of complaint to the GNR from the parent of one of those children - (or as you apparently would prefer to believe -  from a drunken British holidaymaker who allowed her child to be attacked in her bed by a paedaphile)  -which imo clearly indicates that the predator was a total stranger and not someone who had been invited to stay.

Quote:

It is difficult to see with this lack of investigation or interest how a profile of this man can be built up.  It did not appear to us that there was any great incentive or determination to find the offender and bring him to justice................Furthermore, it could all have been so much worse......indeed this man could go on to do much worse to another child if he's not stopped.
Unquote

6 months later -  Madeleine was abducted.

[Angelo222]

When the Brits go abroad they lose all sense of reality in many cases and partake in conduct which they never would do when back home.  This in itself renders a golden opportunity to those monsters who would take advantage of such a situation.  The lifting of Madeleine being such a scenario.

[Lyall]

So do you think the British Consul is a liar and the Leicestershire police are also lying about the British families who contacted them after Madeleine disappeared?   Or are you saying it is the British families who are lying when they came forward and related their own experiences re sexual predators assaulting their children?   Or are you saying Kate simply made the whole chapter up and none of the above ever happened?   Please clarify.

The first direct contact with the police for the public is with the GNR - not the PJ.    But you already know that don't you.

Anyone who thinks KM would be stupid enough to tell enormous porkies about the British Consul, the GNR and the Leicestershire police in a book which is going to read by thousands - and make claims in it which could be proved to be lies in an instant - is seriously deluding themselves IMO.      Kate would have to be simple-minded to even contemplate such a imbecilic move.

Why don't you take your own advice and write to the British Consul and the Leicestershire Police and ask them whether Kate's claims about them is a pack of lies  instead of trying to spread the myth that what Kate wrote about them and the British families in her book never happened.

Lies is old fashioned Benice. Spin is now the word.

How much mention of these attacks was there in the Portuguese papers (English language ones included) before May 2007?

[Benice]

When the Brits go abroad they lose all sense of reality in many cases and partake in conduct which they never would do when back home.  This in itself renders a golden opportunity to those monsters who would take advantage of such a situation.  The lifting of Madeleine being such a scenario.

Quite a sweeping generalisation Angelo - particularly as none of those British families who came forward to the UK police come into that 'category'.   They were all in their apartments when their children were molested.  That in itself suggests that even if the whole McCann family were in their apartment - it doesn't guarantee that Madeleine would not have been taken.  IMO

Must go out now.

[AnneGuedes]

Why don't you take your own advice and write to the British Consul and the Leicestershire Police and ask them whether Kate's claims about them is a pack of lies  instead of trying to spread the myth that what Kate wrote about them and the British families in her book never happened.

I never suggested victims should be identified, a brief statement of the British Consul or a PJ file or a statement of the LC would be sufficient to establish facts.
Nothing of that exists and this is a fact, not a myth.
You argue that it is a fact because Mrs McCann doesn't and can't lie. She had proved she could and even wrote it. Her unsupported story, spread, becomes a myth.
You better leave Mrs McCann spread alone stories that have by the way nothing to do with Madeleine. Remember the McCanns denied that Madeleine could have been harmed in bed as those British kids allegedly were.
 

[colombosstogey]

So what did happen to the mystery couple or were they the ones who were in the Tapas at the same time as the McCanns.

We can confirm that a couple staying in the same block as apartment 5a were interviewed last February.

They were in their apartment on the night Madeleine vanished. Afterwards they wrote an account of what they saw but were never formally interviewed by Portuguese detectives.

They had been at a restaurant earlier in the evening and left at about 9pm.

On their way home they walked directly past the entrance to the Ocean Club pool, where the “Tapas 7” (the name given to the friends eating with the McCanns on the night Madeleine disappeared) were enjoying the meal with Kate and Gerry.

They walked past apartment 5a but noticed nothing untoward. The woman said in her statement: “I stood on the balcony at about 9.15 with a whisky.

“I saw people eating at the tapas bar and children in the play area. We went to bed at 10pm-ish. We were woken up by our bell ringing at 11.30pm. It was a friend of the McCanns, saying that a little girl had been abducted. The friend asked if we had a computer so they could get the media involved in the search.

“Two police were on the corner of our block, one lady said that off-duty police had come and were searching. We did see single men on mobiles while we were out who could have been police.”

The couple took part in the search for Madeleine and then returned to their apartment.

The woman’s statement continues: “We walked back up towards our apartment, a group had gathered on the corner. The McCanns were in bits, he was crying on the shoulder of a friend. She was screaming: ‘The f*****g b........s have taken her’. Finally, at around 4am, we said: ‘Is it OK if we go to bed?’ We directed this comment towards a man in a white shirt and jeans, who seemed to be authoritative.”

At the couple’s home here, two Yard officers questioned them separately for three hours and got them to sign lengthy statements. They further interviewed them this year to double check their information.

The couple are key because at precisely 9.15pm on May 3, Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCanns, said she left the tapas bar and walked past Gerry, who was talking to holidaymaker Jez Wilkins outside apartment 5a.

Neither Gerry nor Jez said they saw Jane. She reported that she had seen a man carrying a child, believed to be Madeleine, walking across the top of the road.

At the time she had not realised the significance. Officers asked the couple if they saw Jane, Gerry or Jez but they insist they did not.

The Sunday Express has visited the couple’s holiday apartment, which looks over the tapas bar. From its balcony you can see directly into the garden of apartment 5a.

The woman said: “We have one of the best views of the whole block. We are sure of the timings. If we had seen anyone we would have remembered.

“We will continue to answer the Yard’s questions. We have given our fingerprints and DNA. We were happy to assist. They should be left to get on with their inquiries.”


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared.

So where did the mystery couple from or was it made up, is it the couple who were in their own apartment?

[Luz]

When the Brits go abroad they lose all sense of reality in many cases and partake in conduct which they never would do when back home.  This in itself renders a golden opportunity to those monsters who would take advantage of such a situation.  The lifting of Madeleine being such a scenario.

If you excuse me, that's a ridiculous excuse.
Either you are responsible or you aren't - it doesn't matter the place or circumstances you are at.

In my opinion the question about the McCann is not if they were irresponsible British tourists but if they had anything to do with the disappearance of their daughter.

I don't buy their "negligence fairy tail", never had and never will.

They know exactly what happened to their daughter, and they have been supporting this very insulting myth, about their alleged negligence, because it obfuscates the real truth. The truth must be very ugly or they wouldn't have confessed to something that being tarnishing can offer them a pretense alibi. For six years people have preferred to accept that a little girl has been abducted/kidnapped than to put their logic and reason to operate.
There were no opened doors, there was no abduction,...whatever happened had the hands of the parents in it.

[Redblossom]

I believe the mystery couple are different people to the couple that gave the tip off about them, and who were reinterviewed by SY....(the Moyses)... See  this thread


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2907.0

But yea, who knows if that bit is true....and if so, who were they? the Mccanns themselves if anyone, cant see strangers walking into someones house to soothe the kids!!

that was to colombosstogey....sorry cross posted...