Author Topic: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?  (Read 89682 times)

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Offline j.rob

Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #210 on: November 08, 2013, 11:45:25 AM »
.... off topic deleted ....

Anyway, back to the pertinent points, as I see them.

In my opinion the McCanns have lied from beginning to end.

When Kate ran out of the apartment and raised the alarm, it was a show. That is not what you would do in that situation before you had more facts. She is a doctor so she understands that you do not immediately reach conclusions. Unless, of course, you have prior knowledge. In which case you might want someone/people to come to a particular conclusion, for whatever reason.

In my opinion, she was staging a show. And she has continued to do so. As has Gerry. Just watch some of the interviews - their body language and their use of language is dripping with symbolism, evasion and a host of other clues. It is staring you in the face. The Emperor has no clothes on.

At the beginning I actually had a lot of sympathy for them. I believed that their story and I felt they got a lot of flak about their babysitting arrangements.

However, as time has gone on, and as I have gained more knowledge about the case, I believe that Amaral came pretty close to the truth. Maybe not completely what happened, but he was a lot closer to the truth than the whole abduction theory with sightings all over the world. In any case, if someone had stolen Madeleine, as claimed by the parents, and she was still alive then presumably they would have changed her appearance - or they would keep her hidden. So all the 'sightings' are pretty ridiculous. Maybe right at the beginning - but even then the McCanns were not that interested - look through the police files, there is CCTV footage of a child that could have been Madeleine at a petrol station a few days after her disappearance and the police wanted Kate to come to the police station to see it. What was her reaction - she was irritated.

Now, why would she react like that? There is only one reason.

Amaral was framed - I certainly believe that. You can understand why that could and can happen when you are dealing with criminals who would prefer not to spend the rest of their lives in jail. Plus the whole mechanism behind them. Not that I am suggesting that the police are always squeaky clean, far from it. But in this case, I think Amaral is not the bad guy. But one can see why the McCann's would not be inviting him to their cocktail parties.

And, whatever else is true or not, the McCanns did expose their children to danger by leaving them alone at night without a babysitter. I presume this is how Madeleine was harmed although you cannot rule out someone losing their temper and striking out or a drug overdose/adverse reaction. Or even something more sinister. They are possibilities. The children were alone in an unlocked apartment. But then again, sometimes the danger is not from outside but from those who are close. A fact which cannot be disputed, unfortunately.

In fact, if you watch the account of what Amaral  believes happened, which is widely available on the internet, you will see that he comes across as quite a measured person. He is a detective who has used his skills to reach a conclusion.

By contrast, the McCanns are all puff and bluster. Plus they have firmly ensconsed themselves in the victim role and are playing on public sympathy. Their arrogance is extraordinary.Well, I have used the term before and I will use it again - chutzpa - it is highly appropriate in this case.

The McCanns hired a massive team to arrange their PR. And the used public money in order to influence the media. These are facts that cannot be disputed.

The 'sightings' of Madeleine are, unfortunately,

I will certainly not be shedding any tears for the convicted child murderers Leonor and Joao Ciprriano. Even if that hadn't been convicted of the child's murder, they were neglectful and abusive towards an innocent child. Nor for their lawyer  Correla who sounds  completely nuts with his so-called   'psychic' powers.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 01:02:00 PM by Admin »

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #211 on: November 08, 2013, 11:54:21 AM »
... off topic deleted ...

Anyway, back to the pertinent points, as I see them.

In my opinion the McCanns have lied from beginning to end.

When Kate ran out of the apartment and raised the alarm, it was a show. That is not what you would do in that situation before you had more facts. She is a doctor so she understands that you do not immediately reach conclusions. Unless, of course, you have prior knowledge. In which case you might want someone/people to come to a particular conclusion, for whatever reason.

In my opinion, she was staging a show. And she has continued to do so. As has Gerry. Just watch some of the interviews - their body language and their use of language is dripping with symbolism, evasion and a host of other clues. It is staring you in the face. The Emperor has no clothes on.

At the beginning I actually had a lot of sympathy for them. I believed that their story and I felt they got a lot of flak about their babysitting arrangements.

However, as time has gone on, and as I have gained more knowledge about the case, I believe that Amaral came pretty close to the truth. Maybe not completely what happened, but he was a lot closer to the truth than the whole abduction theory with sightings all over the world. In any case, if someone had stolen Madeleine, as claimed by the parents, and she was still alive then presumably they would have changed her appearance - or they would keep her hidden. So all the 'sightings' are pretty ridiculous. Maybe right at the beginning - but even then the McCanns were not that interested - look through the police files, there is CCTV footage of a child that could have been Madeleine at a petrol station a few days after her disappearance and the police wanted Kate to come to the police station to see it. What was her reaction - she was irritated.

Now, why would she react like that? There is only one reason.

Amaral was framed - I certainly believe that. You can understand why that could and can happen when you are dealing with criminals who would prefer not to spend the rest of their lives in jail. Plus the whole mechanism behind them. Not that I am suggesting that the police are always squeaky clean, far from it. But in this case, I think Amaral is not the bad guy. But one can see why the McCann's would not be inviting him to their cocktail parties.

And, whatever else is true or not, the McCanns did expose their children to danger by leaving them alone at night without a babysitter. I presume this is how Madeleine was harmed although you cannot rule out someone losing their temper and striking out or a drug overdose/adverse reaction. Or even something more sinister. They are possibilities. The children were alone in an unlocked apartment. But then again, sometimes the danger is not from outside but from those who are close. A fact which cannot be disputed, unfortunately.

In fact, if you watch the account of what Amaral  believes happened, which is widely available on the internet, you will see that he comes across as quite a measured person. He is a detective who has used his skills to reach a conclusion.

By contrast, the McCanns are all puff and bluster. Plus they have firmly ensconsed themselves in the victim role and are playing on public sympathy. Their arrogance is extraordinary.Well, I have used the term before and I will use it again - chutzpa - it is highly appropriate in this case.

The McCanns hired a massive team to arrange their PR. And the used public money in order to influence the media. These are facts that cannot be disputed.

The 'sightings' of Madeleine are, unfortunately,

I will certainly not be shedding any tears for the convicted child murderers Leonor and Joao Ciprriano. Even if that hadn't been convicted of the child's murder, they were neglectful and abusive towards an innocent child. Nor for their lawyer  Correla who sounds  completely nuts with his so-called   'psychic' powers.

Excellent post.

 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 01:13:44 PM by Admin »

lizzibif.

  • Guest
Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #212 on: November 08, 2013, 11:57:51 AM »
Perhaps you should read through some of the threads on here where evidence has been provided that they didn't tell the truth.


I have read the files Stephen..the files that have not been edited..i don't need nor wish to read through edited posts..thank you.

Aiofe

  • Guest
Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #213 on: November 08, 2013, 12:42:12 PM »

Very good. Are you, by any chance, a politician or a lawyer?

Neither. Just someone who knows what is a lie and what is not.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #214 on: November 08, 2013, 12:57:25 PM »
Do you know for a fact the Mccanns have told the truth ?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

 It hasn't been shown that they have told any lies

Offline Mr Gray

Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #215 on: November 08, 2013, 01:00:11 PM »
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html

Pamela Fenn, who resides on the residential block's first floor, above the apartment that was occupied by the McCann family, clarified that on the 1st of May 2007, two days before her disappearance, at around 10.30 p.m., she heard a child crying, which from the sound would be MADELEINE and that she cried for an hour and fifteen minutes, until her parents arrived, at around 11.57 p.m.
 
This shows that the parents were not persistently worried about their children [and] that they didn't check on them like they afterwards declared they did, rather neglecting their duty to guard those same children, although not in a temerarious, or gross, manner.

 


"they didn't check on them like they afterwards declared they did"

Doesn't show anything of the kind..we would have to look at mrs fenns exact statement
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 01:06:13 PM by davel »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #216 on: November 08, 2013, 01:04:24 PM »
.... off topic deleted ....

Anyway, back to the pertinent points, as I see them.

In my opinion the McCanns have lied from beginning to end.

When Kate ran out of the apartment and raised the alarm, it was a show. That is not what you would do in that situation before you had more facts. She is a doctor so she understands that you do not immediately reach conclusions. Unless, of course, you have prior knowledge. In which case you might want someone/people to come to a particular conclusion, for whatever reason.

In my opinion, she was staging a show. And she has continued to do so. As has Gerry. Just watch some of the interviews - their body language and their use of language is dripping with symbolism, evasion and a host of other clues. It is staring you in the face. The Emperor has no clothes on.

At the beginning I actually had a lot of sympathy for them. I believed that their story and I felt they got a lot of flak about their babysitting arrangements.

However, as time has gone on, and as I have gained more knowledge about the case, I believe that Amaral came pretty close to the truth. Maybe not completely what happened, but he was a lot closer to the truth than the whole abduction theory with sightings all over the world. In any case, if someone had stolen Madeleine, as claimed by the parents, and she was still alive then presumably they would have changed her appearance - or they would keep her hidden. So all the 'sightings' are pretty ridiculous. Maybe right at the beginning - but even then the McCanns were not that interested - look through the police files, there is CCTV footage of a child that could have been Madeleine at a petrol station a few days after her disappearance and the police wanted Kate to come to the police station to see it. What was her reaction - she was irritated.

Now, why would she react like that? There is only one reason.

Amaral was framed - I certainly believe that. You can understand why that could and can happen when you are dealing with criminals who would prefer not to spend the rest of their lives in jail. Plus the whole mechanism behind them. Not that I am suggesting that the police are always squeaky clean, far from it. But in this case, I think Amaral is not the bad guy. But one can see why the McCann's would not be inviting him to their cocktail parties.

And, whatever else is true or not, the McCanns did expose their children to danger by leaving them alone at night without a babysitter. I presume this is how Madeleine was harmed although you cannot rule out someone losing their temper and striking out or a drug overdose/adverse reaction. Or even something more sinister. They are possibilities. The children were alone in an unlocked apartment. But then again, sometimes the danger is not from outside but from those who are close. A fact which cannot be disputed, unfortunately.

In fact, if you watch the account of what Amaral  believes happened, which is widely available on the internet, you will see that he comes across as quite a measured person. He is a detective who has used his skills to reach a conclusion.

By contrast, the McCanns are all puff and bluster. Plus they have firmly ensconsed themselves in the victim role and are playing on public sympathy. Their arrogance is extraordinary.Well, I have used the term before and I will use it again - chutzpa - it is highly appropriate in this case.

The McCanns hired a massive team to arrange their PR. And the used public money in order to influence the media. These are facts that cannot be disputed.

The 'sightings' of Madeleine are, unfortunately,

I will certainly not be shedding any tears for the convicted child murderers Leonor and Joao Ciprriano. Even if that hadn't been convicted of the child's murder, they were neglectful and abusive towards an innocent child. Nor for their lawyer  Correla who sounds  completely nuts with his so-called   'psychic' powers.

 You can believe what you like.. I happen to believe you are wrong on many points...but its up to ypu

Offline Mr Gray

Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #217 on: November 08, 2013, 01:08:41 PM »
.... off topic deleted ....

Anyway, back to the pertinent points, as I see them.

In my opinion the McCanns have lied from beginning to end.

When Kate ran out of the apartment and raised the alarm, it was a show. That is not what you would do in that situation before you had more facts. She is a doctor so she understands that you do not immediately reach conclusions. Unless, of course, you have prior knowledge. In which case you might want someone/people to come to a particular conclusion, for whatever reason.

In my opinion, she was staging a show. And she has continued to do so. As has Gerry. Just watch some of the interviews - their body language and their use of language is dripping with symbolism, evasion and a host of other clues. It is staring you in the face. The Emperor has no clothes on.

At the beginning I actually had a lot of sympathy for them. I believed that their story and I felt they got a lot of flak about their babysitting arrangements.

However, as time has gone on, and as I have gained more knowledge about the case, I believe that Amaral came pretty close to the truth. Maybe not completely what happened, but he was a lot closer to the truth than the whole abduction theory with sightings all over the world. In any case, if someone had stolen Madeleine, as claimed by the parents, and she was still alive then presumably they would have changed her appearance - or they would keep her hidden. So all the 'sightings' are pretty ridiculous. Maybe right at the beginning - but even then the McCanns were not that interested - look through the police files, there is CCTV footage of a child that could have been Madeleine at a petrol station a few days after her disappearance and the police wanted Kate to come to the police station to see it. What was her reaction - she was irritated.

Now, why would she react like that? There is only one reason.

Amaral was framed - I certainly believe that. You can understand why that could and can happen when you are dealing with criminals who would prefer not to spend the rest of their lives in jail. Plus the whole mechanism behind them. Not that I am suggesting that the police are always squeaky clean, far from it. But in this case, I think Amaral is not the bad guy. But one can see why the McCann's would not be inviting him to their cocktail parties.

And, whatever else is true or not, the McCanns did expose their children to danger by leaving them alone at night without a babysitter. I presume this is how Madeleine was harmed although you cannot rule out someone losing their temper and striking out or a drug overdose/adverse reaction. Or even something more sinister. They are possibilities. The children were alone in an unlocked apartment. But then again, sometimes the danger is not from outside but from those who are close. A fact which cannot be disputed, unfortunately.

In fact, if you watch the account of what Amaral  believes happened, which is widely available on the internet, you will see that he comes across as quite a measured person. He is a detective who has used his skills to reach a conclusion.

By contrast, the McCanns are all puff and bluster. Plus they have firmly ensconsed themselves in the victim role and are playing on public sympathy. Their arrogance is extraordinary.Well, I have used the term before and I will use it again - chutzpa - it is highly appropriate in this case.

The McCanns hired a massive team to arrange their PR. And the used public money in order to influence the media. These are facts that cannot be disputed.

The 'sightings' of Madeleine are, unfortunately,

I will certainly not be shedding any tears for the convicted child murderers Leonor and Joao Ciprriano. Even if that hadn't been convicted of the child's murder, they were neglectful and abusive towards an innocent child. Nor for their lawyer  Correla who sounds  completely nuts with his so-called   'psychic' powers.

What facts do you base that statement on...

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #218 on: November 08, 2013, 01:14:21 PM »
He was the Lead investigator in charge of the rest of the PJ team who were his subordinates.  IMO  It is not unreasonable to assume that it would be down to him to decide and co-ordinate which direction his investigatory team went in.
Why, in spite of being informed, do you go on pretending the MP has not the leading role in any investigation ? You don't have the excuse of ignorance any more.

Aiofe

  • Guest
Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #219 on: November 08, 2013, 01:17:11 PM »
Perhaps you should read through some of the threads on here where evidence has been provided that they didn't tell the truth.



Not telling the truth is not telling a lie. Consult a dictionary.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #220 on: November 08, 2013, 01:22:45 PM »
Not Icabod's avoidance of the truth- there is no evidence that Kate and Gerry McCann ever said the window was broken.

Throw enough [ censored word]hit and hope it will stick!
No, there's evidence. Or do you think that their own family and friends lied ? All those who spoke to the media had been individually called on the phone by the McCanns.
There's a whole thread here about this topic.
The rumour of abduction was only supported by the myth of the broken shutters. And everybody knows how rumours have a long life.

Offline Carana

Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #221 on: November 08, 2013, 01:24:05 PM »
The analogy I always use is the shooting dead of Jean Paul de Menezes oin the London Underground.

Witnesses "saw" de Menezes wearing a heavyweight, knee-length coat with leads trailing underneath.  He is supposed to have pole-vaulted barriers before sprinting into a carriage of the train, only to be pinned to the floor and shot.

The only true part was the last.

For the rest (revealed by analysis of CCTV footage of actual events), JP DeMenezes made a leisurely entrance to the station, wearing a light-weight denim jacket, stopped to buy a paper, boarded the train in an orthodox manner, was pinned to the floor and shot.

What price a reconstruction of uncovering the truth of that sequence of events?

Very valid point, Ferryman.

As a former poster was at pains to point out (I'm paraphrasing what I believe to have understood), it's the cross-referencing of all types of evidence and the analysis of the whole that helps to either dismiss certain lines of enquiry (or keep them on a back-burner) or to build a case.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #222 on: November 08, 2013, 01:25:12 PM »
Not telling the truth is not telling a lie. Consult a dictionary.
It seems you are a dictionary dealer. No publicity on this forum please !

Offline Mr Gray

Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #223 on: November 08, 2013, 01:27:26 PM »
Perhaps you should read through some of the threads on here where evidence has been provided that they didn't tell the truth.

 No evidence has been provided that they didn't tell the truth

Offline Benice

Re: A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?
« Reply #224 on: November 08, 2013, 01:33:07 PM »
Why, in spite of being informed, do you go on pretending the MP has not the leading role in any investigation ? You don't have the excuse of ignorance any more.

IIRC The judge at the libel trial seems to think Amaral was in charge.  She describes TdA as his No. 2 - and Ricardo Paiva describes himself as subordinate to Amaral.    At least one of the witnesses describes Amaral as the person in charge (words to that effect) and was not challenged.   If any of that is wrong I am happy to be corrected.

IMO Someone on the ground had to be in charge of the case  - it stands to reason that someone in the team had to make the final decision on which direction it would be recommended that the investigation should go - otherwise if opinions differed and everyone was on a level footing  they would never get anywhere.   That's just common sense. 






 
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 01:36:20 PM by Benice »
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal