A new member's perception - but are these points true or false?

[Luz]

But I agree about getting de-railed on the issue of taking risks. I always cut the McCanns a lot of flak for their babysitting arrangements (although they were extraordinarily relaxed about leaving such young children for quite long periods of time).

But even on this issue, they get themselves into a bit of a clef stick. Because you could argue that what they did (leaving children alone without adult supervision) exposed them to the risk of abduction, among other risks.

But the McCann's are quoted as saying that abduction was 'incredibly rare' the 'last thing on their mind'.......which is fair enough. It is very rare. Children are more likely to come to harm/disappear for other reasons. I do agree with them on that score.

So why did abduction go from being the last thing on their minds to the first thing on their minds?

People with dirty minds have dirty thoughts?

Since 2007 I keep saying that the so easily announced "neglect" is an alibi for something more serious.

[j.rob]

Davel, don't make me laugh! Mother's intuition that your child has been abducted by a paedophile when abduction was 'the last thing on your mind'.

The McCanns' minds are curious little beasts - they know things before they have happened. They don't know things when they have happened.

'I knew straight away she had been taken'. Yes, I think this statement should be taken at face value. Kate DID know she had been taken - but by who?

[Wonderfulspam]

Davel, don't make me laugh! Mother's intuition that your child has been abducted by a paedophile when abduction was 'the last thing on your mind'.

The McCanns' minds are curious little beasts - they know things before they have happened. They don't know things when they have happened.

'I knew straight away she had been taken'. Yes, I think this statement should be taken at face value. Kate DID know she had been taken - but by who?

Reporter: "What evidence do you have that there was an abduction? Can I ask this question because you say that Amaral doesn't have..."

Kate McCann: "Because I know. I was there, I found my daughter gone. I know more than you do. I know what I saw."

[Luz]

Reporter: "What evidence do you have that there was an abduction? Can I ask this question because you say that Amaral doesn't have..."

Kate McCann: "Because I know. I was there, I found my daughter gone. I know more than you do. I know what I saw."

....however she refused to say "what she saw" when questioned by the PJ.

[Mr Gray]

Davel, don't make me laugh! Mother's intuition that your child has been abducted by a paedophile when abduction was 'the last thing on your mind'.

The McCanns' minds are curious little beasts - they know things before they have happened. They don't know things when they have happened.

'I knew straight away she had been taken'. Yes, I think this statement should be taken at face value. Kate DID know she had been taken - but by who?

Your dislike of the McCanns is getting in the way of you making logical conclusions...you say both your parents were doctors and reading between the lines did not give you the care you may have expected...see your previous post...is this clouding your judgement

[Benice]

Again - I have to ponder on the Kate's use of words in that particular context. 'Torture' is an incredibly emotive word. I just wonder why she has used that word at this particular point. For instance, the detectives told her that they wanted her to come to the police station to identify a child that might be hers.

At that point, trying to put myself into the situation where my child had gone missing and I did not know what had happened (although Kate, mysteriously, appeared to have reached a conclusion) I think I would be experiencing some hope. I would probably temper that with realism (not wanting to get hopes too high). Would it be 'torture' waiting to identify what might be your child? I'm not sure.....surely the 'torture' would be afterwards, for instance, if you had got your hopes too high.

And, still, why would that be more 'torture' than believing that your child had been abducted by a paedophile?

And now, I come back to ponder on Kate's own phrase: 'people with dirty minds have dirty thoughts'. I cannot ever imagine using that phrase or even really thinking it.

But that is the whole point - the police did NOT tell them why they wanted them to go back to the police station - hence Kates words:-   

Quote
Had Madeleline been found?  Please God. Was she alive? Was she dead?  Gerry and I clung on to each other for dear life.  I was crying hysterically and praying for all I was worth.
Unquote

How anyone can interpret that as she was 'annoyed' and that she didn't expect her daughter to be found is incomprehensible to me.   It's obvious she was hoping that Madeleine had been found - and having to wait even longer at the police station to find out would be torture - every second would seem like hours.       Anyone who can't understand that must be incapable of putting themselves in someone else's shoes IMO.

Amaral wasn't there - so was in no position to make any judgements on them.

[BigFatBlonde]

Amaral wasn't there - so was in no position to make any judgements on them.

I would argue that Amaral was one of only a few people who had access to all of the information arising from the investigation; which would put him in a fairly strong position to make judgements.

N

[j.rob]

Yes - I would take this statement at face value. Madeleine was gone - whether at that point alive, dead, injured, drugged. 

Kate herself raised the paedophile references. I find that deeply disturbing.

The Gaspers statement to police is pretty disturbing too. They must have examined their consciences before they did that. It's not great for your professional reputation, apart from anything else, to be suspected of being interested in child pornography. And when they knew which adults were there when Madeleine went missing, they were concerned enough to contact the police.

[AnneGuedes]

But that is the whole point - the police did NOT tell them why they wanted them to go back to the police station - hence Kates words:-   

You can't state "the police did not tell them why they wanted them to go back to the police station", because it's not a fact, Benice, just the words of Mrs McCann.
Perhaps she's not inventing this in order to denigrate the PJ, though, perhaps nobody spoke English in the car ?

[Mr Gray]

Yes - I would take this statement at face value. Madeleine was gone - whether at that point alive, dead, injured, drugged. 

Kate herself raised the paedophile references. I find that deeply disturbing.

The Gaspers statement to police is pretty disturbing too. They must have examined their consciences before they did that. It's not great for your professional reputation, apart from anything else, to be suspected of being interested in child pornography. And when they knew which adults were there when Madeleine went missing, they were concerned enough to contact the police.

 have you ever seen the gaspar statement....remember it was given in English..transalted into Portuguese...then translated back into english

[BigFatBlonde]

have you ever seen the gaspar statement....remember it was given in English..transalted into Portuguese...then translated back into english

I'm a bit confused about why you always bring up translation regarding slightly negative comments about the McCanns. I mean the european Parliament / United Nations etc rely on translators every day and they discuss areas of much more complexity.

N

[j.rob]

Your dislike of the McCanns is getting in the way of you making logical conclusions...you say both your parents were doctors and reading between the lines did not give you the care you may have expected...see your previous post...is this clouding your judgement

Haha! You make me laugh. This is a little ad hominem! I shouldn't really respond but I will because my judgement, rather than being clouded, is in fact quite clear.

I simply make the point that doctors can be lax about health and safety.

Looking through the lens of a politically correct, health and safety obsessed 2013, one can see that the parenting  methods of the 1960s were verging on neglectful. Attitudes towards children were completely different and children had much more freedom than they do now.

I merely mentioned my parents jobs and attitude towards child-rearing as it supports my view that doctors are not necessarly hyper-vigilent about their childrens health and safety.

There's a balance, isn't there - as a parent one is trying to achieve balance between allowing children some freedom and not being paraoid, but also ensuring they are reasonably safe.

[AnneGuedes]

I'm a bit confused about why you always bring up translation regarding slightly negative comments about the McCanns. I mean the european Parliament / United Nations etc rely on translators every day and they discuss areas of much more complexity.

N

Yes ! And as translating costs a lot of money, they often use English (bad idea) or French (better) as pivot language, which is one chance more of lost in translation.

[j.rob]

I really should do something else - but this is another oddity (there are so many I could write a book about it - ops, I might be sued!)

"Had Madeleline been found?  Please God. Was she alive? Was she dead? "

Isn't the wording odd? Surely it should read: 'Has Madeleine been found alive? Please God."

Surely the 'please god' reference should refer to her being found alive. But it refers equally to her being found dead. That's just so bizarre. Those two little questions posed after the 'please god' - almost like a flippant after thought - both given equal weight - almost as though it was a game or Russian roulette - where will the dice fall?

The Gaspers statement. Yes, I have read it. So what if it was translated? I am sure they made sure that what they said was recorded correctly. You wouldn't want to make a wrong accusation, would you? I mean, the Gaspers would have thought carefully about making that statement. They made it because they thought it might be relevant to the police investigation.

There is no reason to suppose they were not telling the truth. I imagine after that holiday the would have avoided socialising with the McCanns and Dr Payne, at least certainly if there were children around.

They were worried about leaving their daughter around Gerry or Dr Payne after that. That's what they said.

[Benice]

You can't state "the police did not tell them why they wanted them to go back to the police station", because it's not a fact, Benice, just the words of Mrs McCann.
Perhaps she's not inventing this in order to denigrate the PJ, though, perhaps nobody spoke English in the car ?

I can state it because it is in Kate's book and no-one including Amaral, or the PJ officer or Angela  Marado have disputed that fact.  It was Angela Morado who interpreted the message from the PJ.

QUOTE from Kate's book

Ten or fifteen minutes into our journey the police officer had a call from his station.  He said something to Angela, who explained that he'd been ordered to return us to the police station straight away. He wasn't allowed to tell us why.