The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.

[Alfred R Jones]

You don't know about SY's computer system HOLMES or Moore's law relating to increasing computational pwoer yet you state i'm making "pathetic excuses for the PJ".

How can you say that when you don't know what the "excuses" you think I'm making actually relate to?

Oh dear, how embarrassing for you.

Of course I know about HOLMES, and nothing changes the fact that you are making pathetic excuses for the PJ.  What sort of police force simply gives up because its suspects won't attend a reconstruction?  How often are suspects in the UK required to attend reconstructions, and how do the police here ever manage to solve cases if their suspects don't take part in recomstructions?

[Albertini]

I doubt that very much indeed.

I would remind you that the present Portuguese and British investigations did not pick up from where the original investigation left off. 

The Met and the PJ went back to the very beginning – in effect discarding the original investigation which had reached an impasse.

Separately they reached a very different conclusion from Dr Amaral and instigated new avenues of inquiry which had been largely ignored as they did not point to the Drs McCann.

The ground work had been done by the GNR and PJ officers but only that which might have implicated Madeleine’s parents and the Tapas group was investigated with any vigour.

This and not Dr Kate McCann’s exercise of her right not to answer the 48 questions obstructed the search for Madeleine. 

This is verified as both the Met and PJ have stated that the Drs McCann are not persons of interest and both authorities are following a programme dictated by the evidence already in the files and possibly fresh information from appeals. 

Both authorities are looking for a stranger to Madeleine and her family.

Meanwhile, at a remove of seven years, Dr Amaral still stands resolutely by his original theory.

Well you would be wrong then.

Irrespective of what's been investigated since the times lines provided by the participants have not changed one iota since 2007.

Bearing in mind the aim of the reconstitution was:

The PJ is trying to find out, with accuracy, the circumstances of the events occurred, using for that purpose the exact place of events and the same persons who took part in it.

This is a forensic analysis of their timelines with them involved with the PJ in acting out their statements to find out what occurred that evening.

This was in essence a real time forensic analysis of their timelines using the participants themselves. This can only be seen as a far better option than trying to get a computer to do it 7 years later.

Denied to the PJ by the refusal of the group (see the emails) and the lawyers (see Mitchell's publicly quoted statement that "their lawyers would block it anyway".

Not only did it leave Madeline to her fate for 7 years it also ensured the McCann's were unable to demonstrate their innocence to the investigation.

How utterly contemptible.


 

[Albertini]

Of course I know about HOLMES, and nothing changes the fact that you are making pathetic excuses for the PJ.  What sort of police force simply gives up because its suspects won't attend a reconstruction?  How often are suspects in the UK required to attend reconstructions, and how do the police here ever manage to solve cases if their suspects don't take part in recomstructions?

So why didn't you know HOLMES was a computer then?

Are you now saying that they should have fabricated evidence against the group to ensure they could get their EAW's to force them to come back to Portugal to perform the reconstitution?

Make your mind up please. You're criticising the PJ for now doing things by the book!

[Brietta]

7 years computational power?

Are you familiar with Moore's law?

I'd still rather go with the reconstitution actually to see the whites of peoples eyes.

The methods though matter not one jot.

It's the same end result which is key.

"I'd still rather go with the reconstitution actually to see the whites of peoples eyes." 

Back in 2007 Dr Amaral did not agree with you.  When he had the option to do so - he did not hold a reconstruction.

<< SNIP >> 44 - It was thought to do the reconstruction in May but that wasn't possible. The number of tourists, the number of journalists and the fact that the air space had to be closed (because of helicopters from the media) and the fact that it would make the public suspect the McCanns were being treated as suspects prevented it.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html

[stephen25000]

"I'd still rather go with the reconstitution actually to see the whites of peoples eyes." 

Back in 2007 Dr Amaral did not agree with you.  When he had the option to do so - he did not hold a reconstruction.

<< SNIP >> 44 - It was thought to do the reconstruction in May but that wasn't possible. The number of tourists, the number of journalists and the fact that the air space had to be closed (because of helicopters from the media) and the fact that it would make the public suspect the McCanns were being treated as suspects prevented it.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html

As per normal,  you are making excuses for the inexcusable.

[Albertini]

"I'd still rather go with the reconstitution actually to see the whites of peoples eyes." 

Back in 2007 Dr Amaral did not agree with you.  When he had the option to do so - he did not hold a reconstruction.

<< SNIP >> 44 - It was thought to do the reconstruction in May but that wasn't possible. The number of tourists, the number of journalists and the fact that the air space had to be closed (because of helicopters from the media) and the fact that it would make the public suspect the McCanns were being treated as suspects prevented it.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html

The reconstitution under Rebelo was necessary because the changes to stories and timelines over that 11 month period upto and including the Rogatories meant the PJ couldn't possibly construct anything approaching an accurate timeline.

It's a good job Amaral didn't have one, what a waste of time. Would the men have come back form the tennis at 6:00, 7:00 or 8:00 and Rachael still hadn't changed her story that the McCann's patio shutter was down.

How on earth could anything useful have come out of such unmitigated madness?

[Alfred R Jones]

So why didn't you know HOLMES was a computer then?

Are you now saying that they should have fabricated evidence against the group to ensure they could get their EAW's to force them to come back to Portugal to perform the reconstitution?

Make your mind up please. You're criticising the PJ for now doing things by the book!

What ARE you on about???

[Albertini]

What ARE you on about???

Oh dear, you are not with it today are you?

You said:

^{What sort of police force simply gives up because its suspects won't attend a reconstruction?}

If investigations cannot find sufficient evidence to generate European Arrest Warrants to make suspects participate then there is very little they can do other than request they take part.

You are saying that the PJ should not have given up, which given the lack of firm evidence, implies they should have somehow fabricated evidence to ensure they could obtain EAW's to force them to participate.

The PJ didn't do that and yet you still criticise them.

Do keep up Alfred.

[Alfred R Jones]

Oh dear, you are not with it today are you?

You said:

If investigations cannot find sufficient evidence to generate European Arrest Warrants to make suspects participate then there is very little they can do other than request they take part.

You are saying that the PJ should not have given up, which given the lack of firm evidence, implies they should have somehow fabricated evidence to ensure they could obtain EAW's to force them to participate.

The PJ didn't do that and yet you still criticise them.

Do keep up Alfred.

Oh dear you have completely lost the plot.  How you can infer all that from what I wrote is quite beyond me.  A reconstruction of a crime involving the chief suspects is not the b all and end all of an investigation.  It shouldn't all come to a grinding halt simply because a reconstruction is not possible.  Do you not agree with this?  Or do you think suspects can only be brought to justice once they have taken part in a reconstruction?

[Albertini]

Oh dear you have completely lost the plot.  How you can infer all that from what I wrote is quite beyond me.  A reconstruction of a crime involving the chief suspects is not the b all and end all of an investigation.  It shouldn't all come to a grinding halt simply because a reconstruction is not possible.  Do you not agree with this?  Or do you think suspects can only be brought to justice once they have taken part in a reconstruction?

No i haven't, maybe we should put it down to the time of day, and may i charitably suggest you are a little tired and emotional.

There was no credible evidence generated other than the evidence from the last people to see the child alive. Therefore in order to take the investigation forward they required the co-operation of those witnesses to give them the evidence, the timelines and the windows of opportunities to generate the leads.

They did not do that, there was nothing else credible to go on. They couldn't get a coherent story out of them.

Police work revolves around witness evidence, unravelling it and generating leads. That's impossible to do if the witnesses will not cooperate with you.

[Albertini]

Yer, I'll go along with that.  The PJ would have gone for A European Arrest Warrant if they thought they could get away with it.  And they would have fabricated evidence.
But as it was, The McCanns never refused to participate.  So there you go.

Mitch Lang.

So why didn't they fabricate evidence to secure the EAW against them?

[Alfred R Jones]

No i haven't, maybe we should put it down to the time of day, and may i charitably suggest you are a little tired and emotional.

There was no credible evidence generated other than the evidence from the last people to see the child alive. Therefore in order to take the investigation forward they required the co-operation of those witnesses to give them the evidence, the timelines and the windows of opportunities to generate the leads.

They did not do that, there was nothing else credible to go on. They couldn't get a coherent story out of them.

Police work revolves around witness evidence, unravelling it and generating leads. That's impossible to do if the witnesses will not cooperate with you.

So, are you saying that the only way to solve crimes is to have all witnesses and suspects take part in a reconstruction?

[Albertini]

If investigations cannot find sufficient evidence to generate European Arrest Warrants to make suspects participate then there is very little they can do other than request they take part.

Yes!

And evidence required to raise an EAW is pretty slender.

So if evidence required is so slender, and if as you, Eleanor and Alfred so dearly believe, the PJ were seeking to fit them up why didn't the Pj fabricate the evidence to secure the EAW?

You think the PJ were trying to fit them up, yet when they wanted them to return to Portugal under EAW, the PJ DID NOT do so.

Why do you think that is?

[Alfred R Jones]

Well you too would have been guilty of abandoning your supposedly "abducted by paedophiles" child to her fate by sabotaging the investigation looking into her disappearance.

You too would have put your own self preservation over and above ensuring your child was rescued from the hellish lair she was held in by paedophile perpetrators. 

Shame on you as well.

The PJ didn't believe Madeleine was taken by a paedophile though, so please explain how the McCanns and friends taking part in a reconstruction would have saved Madeleine from her fate?

[Albertini]

Once again Ferryman you jump in to prove my point.

You did the other day about the refusal to co-operate in the reconstitution essentially meaning the Tapas 9 prevented the PJ from discovering the  same window of opportunity SY found 7 years later.

You have now helped prove my case by stating that despite the evidential requirement for EAW's being slim, and despite as you three firmly believe the PJ were seeking to fit up the Mccann's, the PJ did not fit them up to secure an EAW.

So if the PJ were as bent as you imply why didn't the PJ fit up the evidence to get them the EAW's they so badly wanted?