The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.

[Brietta]

In that case how can Brietta make an assertion about Jez's statement ?
Maybe she knows him or just whistling in the wind?.
Perm any one from two and lay your purse.

Oh I see my so called "intimation" has transmogrified into an "assertion" in the blink of an eye; such is the stuff of invention when one can find nothing of substance to say.

I am bemused why posters think that people should be so entrusting of the police authorities of any country but particularly one where they are ignorant of custom, law and language without giving very careful consideration to their own and their families' security.
It should be borne in mind that the McCann friends already did not have a positive experience of the PJ.

My suspicions would have been raised by the fact that they were told not to bring their children to Portugal with them.

[faithlilly]

Jeremy Wilkins had already given some thought to the atmosphere surrounding Madeleine McCann's disappearance and the assertions being made against her family and their friends and by association himself.

There may have been many reasons for his reluctance to return to Portugal for a reconstitution IMO one of which might have been because the reconstruction had nothing to do with Madeleine and all to do with her parents, possibly their friends and perhaps himself.


**snip
Quietly, we began to worry that Jes might be next in line for some imagined blame or accusation. On a Saturday night in September, he received a call: we were on the front page of the News of the World. They had surreptitiously taken photographs of us, outside the house. There were no more details. We went to bed, but we could not sleep. "Maddie: the secret witness," said the headline, "TV boss holds vital clue to the mystery." Unfortunately, Jes does not hold any such vital clues. In November, he inched through the events of that May night with Leicestershire detectives, but he saw nothing suspicious, nothing that would further the investigation.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

And perhaps the participants in the aborted reconstruction should have spent more time helping the police than trying to second guess them. Don't you think saving your own skin is a cowardly justification for not helping in the police investigation to find a child ?

[faithlilly]

Oh I see my so called "intimation" has transmogrified into an "assertion" in the blink of an eye; such is the stuff of invention when one can find nothing of substance to say.

I am bemused why posters think that people should be so entrusting of the police authorities of any country but particularly one where they are ignorant of custom, law and language without giving very careful consideration to their own and their families' security.
It should be borne in mind that the McCann friends already did not have a positive experience of the PJ.

My suspicions would have been raised by the fact that they were told not to bring their children to Portugal with them.

Why in heavens name would the McCann's friends need to bring their children anyway ? Who would look after them while the reconstruction was taking place ? The PJ simply intimated that the reconstruction process would be swifter if they were not accompanied by their children. I see nothing wrong in that and, with respect, I don't see why you do.

[Alfred R Jones]

And perhaps the participants in the aborted reconstruction should have spent more time helping the police than trying to second guess them. Don't you think saving your own skin is a cowardly justification for not helping in the police investigation to find a child ?

Perhaps you could explain to us all how a reconstruction as envisaged by the PJ in 2008 would have helped them to find Madeleine? 

[Benice]

Oh I see my so called "intimation" has transmogrified into an "assertion" in the blink of an eye; such is the stuff of invention when one can find nothing of substance to say.

I am bemused why posters think that people should be so entrusting of the police authorities of any country but particularly one where they are ignorant of custom, law and language without giving very careful consideration to their own and their families' security.
It should be borne in mind that the McCann friends already did not have a positive experience of the PJ.

My suspicions would have been raised by the fact that they were told not to bring their children to Portugal with them.

IMO the PJ knew it was highly unlikely that -  after their own experiences -  and seeing what happened to the McCanns -  the group would agree to return.  Their trust in the PJ by that time would be non-existent, 

I also think the PJ did nothing to allay their concerns - in fact quite the opposite.       The correspondence between the PJ and the group reflects that IMO.     For instance - not being able to guarantee the Press could be kept at bay, describing the McCanns as 'the defendants' etc etc -  and also the request not to bring the children would certainly be a red flag to me in those particular circumstances.     Hardly encouraging was it -   I'm not surprised that their solicitors advised them not to go.

IMO it was face-saving operation by the PJ.    A way of deflecting the blame elsewhere for having to shelve the case  - and to take the emphasis away from the inadequacies of their own investigations.    It certainly worked for the sceptics but  not for everyone - as the following quote shows.

Quote

ANTONIO MARINHO PINTO: (translated) I’m convinced the McCann case will feature in Portuguese judicial history as a bad example. What a criminal investigation should not be.
Unquote 

(from memory so am happy to be corrected if necessary)

[Alice Purjorick]

Oh I see my so called "intimation" has transmogrified into an "assertion" in the blink of an eye; such is the stuff of invention when one can find nothing of substance to say.

I am bemused why posters think that people should be so entrusting of the police authorities of any country but particularly one where they are ignorant of custom, law and language without giving very careful consideration to their own and their families' security.
It should be borne in mind that the McCann friends already did not have a positive experience of the PJ.

My suspicions would have been raised by the fact that they were told not to bring their children to Portugal with them.

To paraphrase the late Jack Fingleton "whadda yer mean by transmogrified Brietta". [imagine it is being said in an Australian accent] 

I believe in one of the letters from T7 to Stuart Prior it was implied that they would take part on the condition that the arguido status was lifted from Drs McCann and that no action would be taken against T7 (or some such). If you wade through the link you posted to me you will undoubtedly find it.

As for your attempted condescending put downs I have been insulted by experts luv and you ain't by any stretch of the imagination Dorothy Parker. Added to which the presence of the insult/putdown does rather telegraph that I hit the inner 

[pathfinder73]

IMO the PJ knew it was highly unlikely that -  after their own experiences -  and seeing what happened to the McCanns -  the group would agree to return.  Their trust in the PJ by that time would be non-existent, 

I also think the PJ did nothing to allay their concerns - in fact quite the opposite.       The correspondence between the PJ and the group reflects that IMO.     For instance - not being able to guarantee the Press could be kept at bay, describing the McCanns as 'the defendants' etc etc -  and also the request not to bring the children would certainly be a red flag to me in those particular circumstances.     Hardly encouraging was it -   I'm not surprised that their solicitors advised them not to go.

IMO it was face-saving operation by the PJ.    A way of deflecting the blame elsewhere for having to shelve the case  - and to take the emphasis away from the inadequacies of their own investigations.    It certainly worked for the sceptics but  not for everyone - as the following quote shows.

Quote

ANTONIO MARINHO PINTO: (translated) I’m convinced the McCann case will feature in Portuguese judicial history as a bad example. What a criminal investigation should not be.
Unquote 

(from memory so am happy to be corrected if necessary)

The police are in charge not them. If they believe a reconstruction would help them with their investigation then you should do it. But no let's hide behind our lawyers instead of cooperating. Another good reason not to say any of them are suspects me thinks. Help me CR the ffin tossers are back 

"It is a sad fact that not a single police force anywhere is proactively looking for Madeleine." (KM)

You can blame yourselves and not anybody else when you refused to cooperate!

[Brietta]

To paraphrase the late Jack Fingleton "whadda yer mean by transmogrified Brietta". [imagine it is being said in an Australian accent] 

I believe in one of the letters from T7 to Stuart Prior it was implied that they would take part on the condition that the arguido status was lifted from Drs McCann and that no action would be taken against T7 (or some such). If you wade through the link you posted to me you will undoubtedly find it.

As for your attempted condescending put downs I have been insulted by experts luv and you ain't by any stretch of the imagination Dorothy Parker. Added to which the presence of the insult/putdown does rather telegraph that I hit the inner

It seems my posting style is a matter for some criticism from your worthy self and one or two other worthies.

IMO that would appear to indicate that I'm doing something right ... however feel free to continue to attack the messenger, it merely illustrates that you are unable to contradict the message.

With reference to the cite you have mentioned ... it is worth noting that the intended witnesses took legal advice as a result of the tone of communications received from Portugal ... they were not easily manipulated poor, illiterate Nationals like the Ciprianos, of whose case I am sure they would have been aware ... but Educated British Nationals who took an informed decision not to participate in a farce.

They would also be well aware that a reconstitution had been refused in Portugal at a time when it would have been of value in the case of a missing child.

[faithlilly]

Perhaps you could explain to us all how a reconstruction as envisaged by the PJ in 2008 would have helped them to find Madeleine?

It's not for me to explain but simply to accept that the PJ found it necessary.

[faithlilly]

IMO the PJ knew it was highly unlikely that -  after their own experiences -  and seeing what happened to the McCanns -  the group would agree to return.  Their trust in the PJ by that time would be non-existent, 

I also think the PJ did nothing to allay their concerns - in fact quite the opposite.       The correspondence between the PJ and the group reflects that IMO.     For instance - not being able to guarantee the Press could be kept at bay, describing the McCanns as 'the defendants' etc etc -  and also the request not to bring the children would certainly be a red flag to me in those particular circumstances.     Hardly encouraging was it -   I'm not surprised that their solicitors advised them not to go.

IMO it was face-saving operation by the PJ.    A way of deflecting the blame elsewhere for having to shelve the case  - and to take the emphasis away from the inadequacies of their own investigations.    It certainly worked for the sceptics but  not for everyone - as the following quote shows.

Quote

ANTONIO MARINHO PINTO: (translated) I’m convinced the McCann case will feature in Portuguese judicial history as a bad example. What a criminal investigation should not be.
Unquote 

(from memory so am happy to be corrected if necessary)

Wasn't Rebelo supposed to ge the new broom that swept all that 'Amaral' nonsense away ? What cause did the McCanns and their friends  have for not trusting him ?

[Alice Purjorick]

It seems my posting style is a matter for some criticism from your worthy self and one or two other worthies.

IMO that would appear to indicate that I'm doing something right ... however feel free to continue to attack the messenger, it merely illustrates that you are unable to contradict the message.

With reference to the cite you have mentioned ... it is worth noting that the intended witnesses took legal advice as a result of the tone of communications received from Portugal ... they were not easily manipulated poor, illiterate Nationals like the Ciprianos, of whose case I am sure they would have been aware ... but Educated British Nationals who took an informed decision not to participate in a farce.

They would also be well aware that a reconstitution had been refused in Portugal at a time when it would have been of value in the case of a missing child.

Red bit:
So? Does this have relevance?

Purple bit:
So you are approving of "educated British nationals" trying to dictate to foreign police forces how they execute their duties?
I have observed before it is as well it was Portugal rather than Sweden or The Czech Rebublic!

[Alfred R Jones]

It's not for me to explain but simply to accept that the PJ found it necessary.

To find Madeleine or to prove their thesis?  I don't see how, by any stretch of the imagination a reconstruction could have helped towards the former, perhaps you could stretch your imagination and give me an example of how it might have done..?

[faithlilly]

To find Madeleine or to prove their thesis?  I don't see how, by any stretch of the imagination a reconstruction could have helped towards the former, perhaps you could stretch your imagination and give me an example of how it might have done..?

The PJ remit was to solve the case be that finding Madeleine alive or bringing to book the individuals responsible for her demise and in that context the request for a reconstruction was totally understandable. The evidence led them to the McCanns. If the McCanns and their friends truly wanted to move the investigation on they would have done everything to possible to answer the PJ's suspicions. It really is as simple as that.

When suspicion fell on Ed Smart after his daughter's disappearance he willingly took a polygraph. There was no refusal to cooperate as he was aware by ruling himself out the police could refocus their efforts elsewhere. Why wasn't this course of action taken by the McCanns ?

[Brietta]

Red bit:
So? Does this have relevance?

Purple bit:
So you are approving of "educated British nationals" trying to dictate to foreign police forces how they execute their duties?
I have observed before it is as well it was Portugal rather than Sweden or The Czech Rebublic!

If you care to diss discuss the relevance or not of parts of a particular post do feel free(dom of speech and all that) to do just that. 
Rhetorical questions are fine ... but there seems to be a bit of a trend in asking them.

For future reference and for your information ... if I go to the bother of posting it by definition I believe it is relevant ... if you think otherwise ... do discuss.

For example ... I think it is entirely relevant to point out that of late there is an apparent concerted effort by one or two posters to disrupt this forum ... whether that is by accident or design is all a matter of opinion.

[Alfred R Jones]

The PJ remit was to solve the case be that finding Madeleine alive or bringing to book the individuals responsible for her demise and in that context the request for a reconstruction was totally understandable. The evidence led them to the McCanns. If the McCanns and their friends truly wanted to move the investigation on they would have done everything to possible to answer the PJ's suspicions. It really is as simple as that.

When suspicion fell on Ed Smart after his daughter's disappearance he willingly took a polygraph. There was no refusal to cooperate as he was aware by ruling himself out the police could refocus their efforts elsewhere. Why wasn't this course of action taken by the McCanns ?

OK then, tell me how taking part in a reconstruction would have demonstrated the McCanns innocence?  Simply the act of taking part, or would more have been required, and if so - what?