Author Topic: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.  (Read 312068 times)

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Offline Benice

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #990 on: January 28, 2015, 05:49:37 PM »
It was about investigating a possible crime but those persons asked to attend decided it wouldn't take place with their help.   In my book that is both suspicious and sinister and that is why so many people don't believe them.   Their sad excuses for not going back to Luz are pitiful to say the least, I do hope they have a conscience.

Anyone who can't understand the complete lack of trust the group would have in the PJ and the Portuguese justice system has no ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes IMO.   

Having watched the attempts being made by police officers in a foreign country to pin a terrible crime on your friends who you KNEW were innocent - and witnessed the poisonous smear campaign waged against them by the PT press - which you KNEW was emanating from the PJ  -  would you be keen to do go back to that country if summoned  - where you had already been described as a bunch of 'swingers' in the media - unless you were absolutely certain of their motives?   I certainly wouldn't.

Finding out that the lead investigator who had been appointed to the case -  was not only an Arguido himself  - but was made one in relation to the torture of a defenceless woman in his  previous missing child case - would be enough to make me wonder what sort of judicial system was operating in that country  in the first place - to let that happen.   The fact that his 2nd in command also turned out to be an arguido in another torture case would have been even more shocking IMO.

The group were not sure of their motives  -and as long as there was even a hint of a suspicion that this Recon was a last attempt to implicate the parents, and maybe themselves - then  no-one in their right mind would have agreed to go IMO..

 As it happened - IMO the PJ made it easy for them by stipulating that unless everyone agreed to go - it wouldn't happen, so once Jez said NO - then IMO the PJ had got what they wanted and were mighty relieved.  At least they now wouldn't be faced with the following:

PJ to Jez.  ''We'd like you to set off at the same time you set off a year ago''.

Jez to PJ - '' But I'm not certain what time I set off - I can only take an approximate guess at it.   If I get it wrong and Gerry is still in 5a when I go up that road and so we don't meet as we did that night - what do I do then?   Do we start again and I set off at a different time - or what?''

PJ to Jez........................................................ Errm.


The only thing a recon would have proved is that it is not humanly possible for 10 people to meticulously and accurately recreate all their movements - exactly and precisely at the identical times they had carried them out -  between the hours of 5.30 and 11p.m. - on a day over 12 months prior.        It's just not possible.

I'm sure the PJ were intelligent enough to realise that.

AIMHO



     
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #991 on: January 28, 2015, 05:51:49 PM »
And many disagree.   Refusing to cooperate with police is an indicator of guilt.  In that I agree with Mr Amaral.

My own view is that every last one of them should be dragged back kicking if necessary.
And many on here would disagree with you again

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #992 on: January 28, 2015, 05:54:36 PM »
And many on here would disagree with you again

Yep, in single figures.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #993 on: January 28, 2015, 05:56:40 PM »
Anyone who can't understand the complete lack of trust the group would have in the PJ and the Portuguese justice system has no ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes IMO.   

Having watched the attempts being made by police officers in a foreign country to pin a terrible crime on your friends who you KNEW were innocent - and witnessed the poisonous smear campaign waged against them by the PT press - which you KNEW was emanating from the PJ  -  would you be keen to do go back to that country if summoned  - where you had already been described as a bunch of 'swingers' in the media - unless you were absolutely certain of their motives?   I certainly wouldn't.

Finding out that the lead investigator who had been appointed to the case -  was not only an Arguido himself  - but was made one in relation to the torture of a defenceless woman in his  previous missing child case - would be enough to make me wonder what sort of judicial system was operating in that country  in the first place - to let that happen.   The fact that his 2nd in command also turned out to be an arguido in another torture case would have been even more shocking IMO.

The group were not sure of their motives  -and as long as there was even a hint of a suspicion that this Recon was a last attempt to implicate the parents, and maybe themselves - then  no-one in their right mind would have agreed to go IMO..

 As it happened - IMO the PJ made it easy for them by stipulating that unless everyone agreed to go - it wouldn't happen, so once Jez said NO - then IMO the PJ had got what they wanted and were mighty relieved.  At least they now wouldn't be faced with the following:

PJ to Jez.  ''We'd like you to set off at the same time you set off a year ago''.

Jez to PJ - '' But I'm not certain what time I set off - I can only take an approximate guess at it.   If I get it wrong and Gerry is still in 5a when I go up that road and so we don't meet as we did that night - what do I do then?   Do we start again and I set off at a different time - or what?''

PJ to Jez........................................................ Errm.


The only thing a recon would have proved is that it is not humanly possible for 10 people to meticulously and accurately recreate all their movements - exactly and precisely at the identical times they had carried them out -  between the hours of 5.30 and 11p.m. - on a day over 12 months prior.        It's just not possible.

I'm sure the PJ were intelligent enough to realise that.

AIMHO



     

and whose fault is all this ???

Tough question, isn't it. 8)--))

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #994 on: January 28, 2015, 05:58:10 PM »
And many on here would disagree with you again
I wouldn't go to Portugal and I've not even been asked to take part in a reconstruction!

Offline jassi

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #995 on: January 28, 2015, 06:03:11 PM »
I wouldn't go to Portugal and I've not even been asked to take part in a reconstruction!

 @)(++(*  I'm with you on that one, and certainly never to a place like O/C appeared to be.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Angelo222

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #996 on: January 28, 2015, 06:17:01 PM »
@)(++(*  I'm with you on that one, and certainly never to a place like O/C appeared to be.

The resort wasn't the problem, they provided every facility but unfortunately two doctors thought they knew better and ended up losing a daughter.  That is the reality whichever way you attempt to spin it.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline jassi

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #997 on: January 28, 2015, 06:19:14 PM »
The resort wasn't the problem, they provided every facility but unfortunately two doctors thought they knew better and ended up losing a daughter.

I wasn't thinking of its security aspects, more the sort of place it was in general - not my sort of place at all.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #998 on: January 28, 2015, 06:22:32 PM »
You know very well as I do that the McCanns have avoided going on record to say they would not take part. They knew that if their friends reneged then they would not be required to go either.  Nobody is fooled by this Alfred.

If the McCanns really wanted a reconstruction they could have got one.


Public Ministry of Portimao
Case Section
Case 201/07 GALGS


Dear Sir
Public prosecutor


Kate Marie Healy arguida in the case referred to above, having been notified (page 3947) expresses her availability to participate in the reconstruction of the events on the second of the dates suggested, in other words on the 15 and 16th of next May. Her husband, Gerry McCann has also already expressed his availability.

Rogerio Alves
Lawyer
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RE_ENACTMENT.htm

The Drs  McCann are on record as being available to attend a reconstruction.

Unfortunately, when they really wanted one ... shortly after Madeleine disappeared ... it was refused.  Dr amaral mentioned something about closing the air space in his book I think.

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Angelo222

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #999 on: January 28, 2015, 06:33:58 PM »
Saying one thing and doing the opposite appears to be a common trait.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1000 on: January 28, 2015, 06:40:46 PM »

Public Ministry of Portimao
Case Section
Case 201/07 GALGS


Dear Sir
Public prosecutor


Kate Marie Healy arguida in the case referred to above, having been notified (page 3947) expresses her availability to participate in the reconstruction of the events on the second of the dates suggested, in other words on the 15 and 16th of next May. Her husband, Gerry McCann has also already expressed his availability.

Rogerio Alves
Lawyer
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RE_ENACTMENT.htm

The Drs  McCann are on record as being available to attend a reconstruction.

Unfortunately, when they really wanted one ... shortly after Madeleine disappeared ... it was refused.  Dr amaral mentioned something about closing the air space in his book I think.

and you know full well, why the reconstruction didn't take place then.

Since then,

NO EXCUSES.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1001 on: January 28, 2015, 06:45:03 PM »
and you know full well, why the reconstruction didn't take place then.

Since then,

NO EXCUSES.
And others think the McCann's did the right thing

Offline jassi

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1002 on: January 28, 2015, 06:46:55 PM »
And others think the McCann's did the right thing

The McCanns did do the right thing - they agreed to go. It was the others that blocked any reconstruction.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1003 on: January 28, 2015, 06:47:06 PM »
And others think the McCann's did the right thing

A very, very small number, to put it mildly.

Offline Brietta

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1004 on: January 28, 2015, 06:47:38 PM »
Anyone who can't understand the complete lack of trust the group would have in the PJ and the Portuguese justice system has no ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes IMO.   

Having watched the attempts being made by police officers in a foreign country to pin a terrible crime on your friends who you KNEW were innocent - and witnessed the poisonous smear campaign waged against them by the PT press - which you KNEW was emanating from the PJ  -  would you be keen to do go back to that country if summoned  - where you had already been described as a bunch of 'swingers' in the media - unless you were absolutely certain of their motives?   I certainly wouldn't.

Finding out that the lead investigator who had been appointed to the case -  was not only an Arguido himself  - but was made one in relation to the torture of a defenceless woman in his  previous missing child case - would be enough to make me wonder what sort of judicial system was operating in that country  in the first place - to let that happen.   The fact that his 2nd in command also turned out to be an arguido in another torture case would have been even more shocking IMO.

The group were not sure of their motives  -and as long as there was even a hint of a suspicion that this Recon was a last attempt to implicate the parents, and maybe themselves - then  no-one in their right mind would have agreed to go IMO..

 As it happened - IMO the PJ made it easy for them by stipulating that unless everyone agreed to go - it wouldn't happen, so once Jez said NO - then IMO the PJ had got what they wanted and were mighty relieved.  At least they now wouldn't be faced with the following:

PJ to Jez.  ''We'd like you to set off at the same time you set off a year ago''.

Jez to PJ - '' But I'm not certain what time I set off - I can only take an approximate guess at it.   If I get it wrong and Gerry is still in 5a when I go up that road and so we don't meet as we did that night - what do I do then?   Do we start again and I set off at a different time - or what?''

PJ to Jez........................................................ Errm.


The only thing a recon would have proved is that it is not humanly possible for 10 people to meticulously and accurately recreate all their movements - exactly and precisely at the identical times they had carried them out -  between the hours of 5.30 and 11p.m. - on a day over 12 months prior.        It's just not possible.

I'm sure the PJ were intelligent enough to realise that.

AIMHO



     

Absolutely ... and my reading of the correspondence indicates that it was intended to carry out the reconstruction to replicate what happened in one night in "real time".

I think it would have turned into a farce if it had happened.  People are not tape recorders with a rewind button, it could not have happened particularly if the participants were unsure of times to begin with.

**snip

The purpose is to gather all the participants - the arguidos Gerald McCann and Kate Healy, the witnesses who were having dinner at the Tapas Restaurant on 3rd May 2007, and who took turns to check on their children who were sleeping in the
respective apartments, as well as another witness who spoke with the arguido Gerald-, who will perform what they did on the abovementioned date, as accurately as they recall, so that what is in their written statements can be confirmed. This will allow conclusions to be drawn on how things happened on site, thus making adjustments that will allow the investigation to determine the need for any supplemental procedure.


Page 4304 (Page 2 of 3)

The re-enactment that shall have the participation of the abovementioned group of people, as well as of any character whose figurative presence might be necessary to the visualization of the events, shall take place on 15th May, between 5.30 p.m. and 11.00 p.m. On 16th May all the procedure shall be formalized, according to what had already been settled for this date and considering that all the participants meant to be present have already been informed accordingly. This cannot be subject to any change due to the time and place where the procedure shall take place.

The re-enactment will be performed at the space of the abovementioned Restaurant, Block of Apartments where the facts occurred on that date, and in the surrounding area, and it will be carried out by the Policia Judiciaria, with the respective video recording and with the cooperation of the Police Authorities required by the PJ.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RE_ENACTMENT.htm

I imagine this would have been a very stressful episode for all concerned had it taken place;  I wonder if any thought at all had been given to the possibility of the complete physical and nervous collapse of a woman or of a man participating in a re-enactment of events and location of the life changing night when their daughter vanished.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....