The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.

[Alfred R Jones]

Why should I?  A reconstruction's sole purpose is to establish what went on in the hours and minutes leading up to what may possibly have been a crime.  It's purpose is to identify anomalies as I stated earlier. Guilt or innocence is determined by many factors and not just by conducting a reconstruction. People who refuse to take part in a reconstruction and particularly one involving a disappeared child will always be viewed as worthy of further scrutiny.

You said the reconstruction would resolve several issues - what were those issues and how exactly would the reconstruction have resolved them?  Is it standard practise to get suspects and victims to take part in a reconstruction of a deeply upsetting series of events?

[Brietta]

You said the reconstruction would resolve several issues - what were those issues and how exactly would the reconstruction have resolved them?  Is it standard practise to get suspects and victims to take part in a reconstruction of a deeply upsetting series of events?

Why did the reconstruction involve only the Drs McCann, Jez and their friends?  Were they the only inhabitants of PDL on the 3rd May 2007?

[Matthew Wyse]

You said the reconstruction would resolve several issues - what were those issues and how exactly would the reconstruction have resolved them?  Is it standard practise to get suspects and victims to take part in a reconstruction of a deeply upsetting series of events?

Yes several issues remain unclear as to who was where and when and that is part of the problem. To list them all would take far too long at the moment. Reconstructions are a normal tool for police services all over the world but the Portuguese do reconstitutions which require the original participants to take part.

[slartibartfast]

Yes several issues remain unclear as to who was where and when and that is part of the problem. To list them all would take far too long at the moment. Reconstructions are a normal tool for police services all over the world but the Portuguese do reconstitutions which require the original participants to take part.

Strange how those who talk about the inaccuracies associated with witness statements see no contradiction in their stance that the T9 + were right not to go back for the reconstruction to iron out those inaccuracies.

[Alfred R Jones]

Yes several issues remain unclear as to who was where and when and that is part of the problem. To list them all would take far too long at the moment. Reconstructions are a normal tool for police services all over the world but the Portuguese do reconstitutions which require the original participants to take part.

As already pointed out, each potential participant recalled events occurring at slightly different times so how would a reconstruction possibly resolve whose times were correct?  Wouldn't they have had to carry out numerous reconstrctions  to try out all the different permutations and if so what would that have resolved one way or the other? 

If it's true that the Portuguese require victims of crime to re-live deeply traumatic events then I find that very insensitive indeed. 

[faithlilly]

Yes several issues remain unclear as to who was where and when and that is part of the problem. To list them all would take far too long at the moment. Reconstructions are a normal tool for police services all over the world but the Portuguese do reconstitutions which require the original participants to take part.

I don't think if there had been an official reconstruction Gerry's recollection of what side of the road he was on while talking to Jez would have taken prominence over Jez and Tanner's as it did in the Loach debacle.

[Alfred R Jones]

Strange how those who talk about the inaccuracies associated with witness statements see no contradiction in their stance that the T9 + were right not to go back for the reconstruction to iron out those inaccuracies.

Perhaps you would like to explain how a reconstruction would have ironed out those inaccuracies?  Who would have decided which timeline must have been the correct one, when they all differed slightly?  Would it have been up to the police to decide, or would those taking part in the reconstruction have a vote on it, or what?

[slartibartfast]

Perhaps you would like to explain how a reconstruction would have ironed out those inaccuracies?  Who would have decided which timeline must have been the correct one, when they all differed slightly?  Would it have been up to the police to decide, or would those taking part in the reconstruction have a vote on it, or what?

Start at the beginning and work through. If something starts to happen later than recalled, rewind and see what may have started sooner or taken less time, repeat. You finish up with a consistent and realistic timeline. If this isn't achievable then someone's recollection is faulty.

[Alfred R Jones]

Start at the beginning and work through. If something starts to happen later than recalled, rewind and see what may have started sooner or taken less time, repeat. You finish up with a consistent and realistic timeline. If this isn't achievable then someone's recollection is faulty.

Obviously one or more persons recollection was faulty, we know that already from the numerous minor inconsistencies in all the witness statements that evening, so what's a reconstruction going to prove exactly and who decides whether witness x was right or witness y?

[slartibartfast]

Obviously one or more persons recollection was faulty, we know that already from the numerous minor inconsistencies in all the witness statements that evening, so what's a reconstruction going to prove exactly and who decides whether witness x was right or witness y?

The reconstruction removes the minor inconsistencies. The police would know more after a reconstruction than before.

...or is that the problem?

[Benice]

Yes several issues remain unclear as to who was where and when and that is part of the problem. To list them all would take far too long at the moment. Reconstructions are a normal tool for police services all over the world but the Portuguese do reconstitutions which require the original participants to take part.

How can any 'issues'  be cleared up unless the 10 people involved could faithfully and accurately repeat their exact movements from one night - 12 months prior - at the exact time they had made them? 

 It would only take one of them to be a couple of minutes wrong with their recollection of the times for the recon to fail.

All an attempted recon would have proved IMO is that it is absolutely impossible for 10 people to re-create their movements without the precision of memory which, in this particular case, would be a vital requirement  - in order for an accurate recon to be achieved.     Apart from GM -  the one thing they could not remember were precise times  - and no self-respecting policeman would expect them to in those circumstances. 
 

[Wonderfulspam]

How can any 'issues'  be cleared up unless the 10 people involved could faithfully and accurately repeat their exact movements from one night - 12 months prior - at the exact time they had made them? 

 It would only take one of them to be a couple of minutes wrong with their recollection of the times for the recon to fail.

All an attempted recon would have proved IMO is that it is absolutely impossible for 10 people to re-create their movements without the precision of memory which, in this particular case, would be a vital requirement  - in order for an accurate recon to be achieved.     Apart from GM -  the one thing they could not remember were precise times  - and no self-respecting policeman would expect them to in those circumstances.

Their mere cooperation, all of them attending, would have been a start.

Their absence wasn't indicative of innocence.

[slartibartfast]

How can any 'issues'  be cleared up unless the 10 people involved could faithfully and accurately repeat their exact movements from one night - 12 months prior - at the exact time they had made them? 

 It would only take one of them to be a couple of minutes wrong with their recollection of the times for the recon to fail.

All an attempted recon would have proved IMO is that it is absolutely impossible for 10 people to re-create their movements without the precision of memory which, in this particular case, would be a vital requirement  - in order for an accurate recon to be achieved.     Apart from GM -  the one thing they could not remember were precise times  - and no self-respecting policeman would expect them to in those circumstances.

Try reading what I put earlier. We know the times are not precise. It doesn't matter if the reconstruction moved the times around by +/- 5 minutes. You end up with an agreed timeline which can be used to identify times when events occurred.

[Benice]

Try reading what I put earlier. We know the times are not precise. It doesn't matter if the reconstruction moved the times around by +/- 5 minutes. You end up with an agreed timeline which can be used to identify times when events occurred.

Of course it matters.   If the incorrect times were used then JT could still be at the table when Gerry returned and Jez Wilkins could have walked up the street and be gone before Gerry left the apartment.   Apart from proving that Jez and Jane had guessed at the wrong times they set off  - how could that assist with anything?

You haven't said how the PJ would address this obvious problem.

IMO The bottom line is that it simply wouldn't work and I do not believe that the PJ were so stupid that they didn't aready know that when they made the requests for a recon.

(must go now)

[slartibartfast]

Of course it matters.   If the incorrect times were used then JT could still be at the table when Gerry returned and Jez Wilkins could have walked up the street and be gone before Gerry left the apartment.   Apart from proving that Jez and Jane had guessed at the wrong times they set off  - how could that assist with anything?

You haven't said how the PJ would address this obvious problem.

IMO The bottom line is that it simply wouldn't work and I do not believe that the PJ were so stupid that they didn't aready know that when they made the requests for a recon.

(must go now)

If any events become impossible then that is a productive outcome from the reconstruction.

If the timeline hangs together then that is s productive outcome.

What possible realistic reason could there be not to run a reconstruction.